Elms Estimating software

[Eieio]

Ok so I got permission to write about this.. I am currently beta testing a remodeling and Lead management software..

This is the company

Scott Gerold

Future Systems Software, Inc.

www.futuresystemsinc.com

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The beta test is approxiamately three months long..


The software will track leads, jobs in progress, estimating, contracts and store job documents..

The beta test will provide real world feed back to the company and allow them to add features, make the software user friendly and customize it to fit the needs of the core group of remodeling users..

So far it has been a cool experience.. We give the owners ideas or suggest changes and get to watch them being implemented..

The software usually gets updated every few weeks with changes that have been suggested so the updates come rather quickly..


My biggest reason for post on this is to get feed back from the members here on what a software would need to have or do to be useful to you..

The software right now can be tailored to most remodeling business so any one can give their input on this.

I will ask permission to see what all I can included and post about the software and get you guys opinions..

Maybe some screen shots and up coming features.

The owner of the company Scott frequents the forum and blog so I am quite sure he will chime in as well..

[Elms]

Ok so I got permission to write about this.. I am currently beta testing a remodeling and Lead management software..

This is the company

Scott Gerold

Future Systems Software, Inc.

www.futuresystemsinc.com



Thanks Rory for the shout out. Feel free to share any information good and bad regarding your experience with ELMS Advantage online. This is the only way are to make a better product.

Future Systems is the parent company. The actual company with regards to ELMS is Elms Software, Inc. The website is www.elmssoftware.com and you will find more info there.

We have an open development methodology and will answer all questions the best we can . I will be happy to give anyone personal demos if they are interested. Competitors are also welcome to participate.

You are also welcome to try our free 30 day trial of ELMS Personal Edition.

[Elms]

I am experimenting with different mapping solutions to integrate with ELMS. Below is a link to a 2 minute demo of our experiment with Microsoft Bing Maps. How are you using maps today? Are you using google street view?

ELMS Map Demo (http://www.elmssoftware.com/advantage/demos/elms%20advantage%20map%20overview.htm)

[Eieio]

Can you add measurements on the roof view so I don't have to climb up on the roof to measure it when I get there??? :laugh3:

[Eieio]

Ok That is pretty cool Scott. The rotating feature around the house will come in handy when your back in the office as well..

[MOTB]

I am really happy to see your approach, exactly how MyOnlineToolbox has been developing since a few years ago. I have been waiting for development firms in this contracting community to move in to take a different more modern approach to providing solutions to the industry.

Over more than a year we had a few hundred contractors offer suggestions before the first lines of code were written for MyOnlineToolbox, so my suggestion will be to spend more time getting quidance as opposed to programming, or you will need to retreat more times than anyone will care to admit.

A user community should constantly give feedback on how the platform solution is working, what extra features they desire to see and how best to implement these features. In other words, a customer user community reviews and refines every step of the business and continued application development process. Feedback provides valuable insight toward enhancements, and more importantly, what development we should not be doing.

But there is a major challenge that must be overcome when it comes to managing the super-users and new users, and you must be careful not to go in the direction that a few super users control your destiny or you will quickly find out how difficult you made your application for the masses. Experienced opinions must be mixed with new opinions, as opposed to getting comfortable with only the early adopters.

You should also be using Object Oriented Programming. In other words, features are in self-contained blocks (not visible to the eye) that can be individually pulled out and replaced with more advanced updated blocks without disrupting the entire application. You can try new things as well as revert back to the old way if our users decide that the idea they had simply could not be incorporated as they desired (which happens). We like to think of it along the lines of taking many steps foward, possibly a step or two back to adjust, then preparing to go foward again.

I welcome you to the battlefield of platform solutions. :rifle:

Brian Javeline
President & Co-founder
www.MyOnlineToolbox.com
powered by ServusXchange

[Elms]

I welcome you to the battlefield of platform solutions.


Thanks Brian - I am happy to make my contributions to the remodeling and construction industry.

I have found in my 10+ years servicing this industry that remodelers and contractors are always generous with their ideas and willing to discuss their business processes. We are lucky in the fact that we can draw opinions from an established user base for ELMS Personal Edition (http://www.elmssoftware.com/elmspe) and new users with regard to ELMS Advantage Online (http://www.elmssoftware.com/advantage).

I fear the thought of not servicing my customers more than the potential of not servicing the masses because of complicated software. No wonder my accountant looks at me funny :laugh3:

[Silvertree]

No wonder my accountant looks at me funny

No, he looks at you funny because you have a vision, the same thing our accountants look at us funny for.

[MOTB]

I fear the thought of not servicing my customers more than the potential of not servicing the masses because of complicated software.

Completely agree with you, and just want to add that it is our responsibility, not the customers, to ensure the software doesn't become complicated.

Usually this slowly occurs as people throw all sorts of ideas that get implemented without realizing that a small percentage of a complete application is used all the time. For example, less than 5% of excel or word's features are used and business sytems tend to even have less (whether it is believed or not).

The trick is to harness what most people use most of the time and do not get distracted with what a few users may use some of the time, if at all. Most customers may not fully understand the programming time it takes to try something, and even worse, what it takes to retreat with coding as it gets more embedded into an application (especially true if not object oriented).

It also should include the amount your customers are paying for the service that they get since obviously there are different expectations between free, low cost and premium pricing.

So a few users can actually dictate where the development is going so long as they realize that there will be restriction on mass marketing, which is OK so long as they realize you need to charge more for less sales.

Brian

[Eieio]

Beta testing is complete and the new online version is available..

http://www.elmssoftware.com/

[naptownCr]

I am experimenting with different mapping solutions to integrate with ELMS. Below is a link to a 2 minute demo of our experiment with Microsoft Bing Maps. How are you using maps today? Are you using google street view?

ELMS Map Demo (http://www.elmssoftware.com/advantage/demos/elms%20advantage%20map%20overview.htm)

Google earth for me but addresses are not always accurate.
I can glean a wealth of information from them once I establish which house it is.
Roof pitch is another story this has been difficult to determine from any or the mapping sites.

[orson]

I downloaded the demo version and was immediately unimpressed with the estimating database.

This seems to be a common flaw IMO with most of the software available for estimating or that includes estimating as a component of the software.

[Eieio]

I downloaded the demo version and was immediately unimpressed with the estimating database.

This seems to be a common flaw IMO with most of the software available for estimating or that includes estimating as a component of the software.



What did you not like?

[orson]

Lack of description in estimate items making it impossible to determine what the pricing is reflecting.

[Eieio]

Lack of description in estimate items making it impossible to determine what the pricing is reflecting.

Cool.. Scott/Elms is good at responding to suggestions so hopefully he will see this and comment

[orson]

My demo is expired or I would post some specific examples.

[Eieio]

My demo is expired or I would post some specific examples.


PM Sent to you

[orson]

Alright, here is a pretty solid example out of many I could choose from:

under plumbing I picked out several selections and here are some of the line items:

New Fixture Rough-in supply, waste. Existing Cast iron pipe $1200/FIXTURE

New Fixture Rough-in supply, waste. Existing PVC Pipe $1000/EA

Rough-in supply, waste, & vent lines $600/FIX

Rough-in supply, waste, & vent lines $850/EA



Here is another:

Extend hot & cold water line. 1/2" copper $34/LF

Extend hot/cold water line, 1/2" copper $10/LF

[Eieio]

Do you think the pricing is off or that more description is needed?

[orson]

Do you think the pricing is off or that more description is needed?

That's always the million dollar question.

My guess is it has more to do with a lack of description than the pricing itself.

[Eieio]

That's always the million dollar question.

My guess is it has more to do with a lack of description than the pricing itself.


Part of the Beta we did with Scott/Elms I mentioned the pricing and he has a solution for that. The scopes he will insert for you if I remember correctly..

The software is "open source" he will modify it to your needs.. If it does meet your needs.


Then we will review the next one.. :2thumbsup:

[Elms]

That's always the million dollar question.

My guess is it has more to do with a lack of description than the pricing itself.


I am sorry you got that impression of the task database. The default task database that comes with the ELMS Personal Edition has over 2700 tasks across 26 categories. The software allows you to configure both descriptions and prices as well as adding your own specific tasks.

Any suggestions on how to improve the descriptions of tasks or software is greatly appreciated. The default task database is also going through an update in order to support Material Take-offs for the ELMS Advantage Online product.

Please feel free to contact me directly if there is anything I can do or if there are any questions I can answer.

Thank you for your feedback.

[TooledUp]

Part of the Beta we did with Scott/Elms I mentioned the pricing and he has a solution for that. The scopes he will insert for you if I remember correctly..

The software is "open source" he will modify it to your needs.. If it does meet your needs.
-


From what I can see, it's not open source but open development. There is a huge difference :)

[fez-head]

That's always the million dollar question.

My guess is it has more to do with a lack of description than the pricing itself.

That is how I feel about all the estimating books that I have purchased. How do you compare apples to apples with vague descriptions like that?

The more detailed and descriptive the assemblies in each scope of work - the more your final cost to the client is justified. Details, details, details.

[Silvertree]

I always rewrote my descriptions and most software allows that.

Some jobs go good with remove and replace, others need more detail.

No one estimating program will do your pricing and descriptions, that's why I follow with a complete scope of work.

[Elms]

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From what I can see, it's not open source but open development. There is a huge difference :)


This is correct - we are an open development shop (http://forums.elmssoftware.com/topic46-what-is-the-open-development-plaform.aspx#post96). Open Source products will supply the source code with the product either at a price or free.

[Elms]

I always rewrote my descriptions and most software allows that.

Some jobs go good with remove and replace, others need more detail.

No one estimating program will do your pricing and descriptions, that's why I follow with a complete scope of work.

Most of our customers are customizing the task database for their specific descriptions and prices. We are actually adding a second description line per request of other customers.

We have toiled with the possibility of providing pricing updates as an optional service. This would require the task database to be static where it can not be changed, but could include your personal additions.

One option is that we partner or resell the price updates and database from an established company that provides this service. I want to be very cautious with whom we jump into bed with!!

Where does everyone receive there tasks, costs, and subsequent updates currently?
How often do you update your tasks and prices.
How accurate are your prices?

Thanks for the information.

[fez-head]

I like to go to Contractor Talk and ask "How much should I charge?"

When that doesn't work we use the Craft hours from RS Means or National Cost Estimator (insurance and remodeling edition) plugging in "our" $79 pmh rate and call suppliers for actual material cost. We also ad for drive time, tool/trailer/dump charges and mileage

[Elms]

Most of our customers are customizing the task database for their specific descriptions and prices. We are actually adding a second description line per request of other customers.


I forgot to add that we will also load your specific tasks and price list into an ELMS database. We have done that for many of our customers.