Hey GC's

[uwing]

Tell me. What are your dislikes and likes of the painter you currently use or have used in the past. I like to hear what your thoughts are.

[naptownCr]

don't get me started
I don't have all night
There have been a few good ones though.

[Silvertree]

Tells a finish date and it takes much longer, reasons are too humid, too hot, too cold, carpenters in the way.
Truth was, guys didn't show with full crew, left early, had to go to Brainerd Raceway.

Prima Donna with one guy, didn't like anybody.

The guys I use now are great, friendly and helpful with customers, good clean up.

[uwing]

don't get me started
I don't have all night
There have been a few good ones though.
Please, I can give a rats azz how bad the bad is. I would like to know for my and others benefit.

[uwing]

Tells a finish date and it takes much longer, reasons are too humid, too hot, too cold, carpenters in the way.
Truth was, guys didn't show with full crew, left early, had to go to Brainerd Raceway.

Prima Donna with one guy, didn't like anybody.

The guys I use now are great, friendly and helpful with customers, good clean up.

Glad you found your match. did it cost you more?

[TulsaRemodeler]

Spent a lot of years on punch in major projects. Honestly I rate responsive painters higher then plumbers and electricians. Git-R-Done

[Silvertree]

Well then the good, communicates and understands colors and how they make a project look better.
Understands products and can help with selections.

Protecting the property.

Finish on time.

That work for you or are you looking for paint tips, then I'd say good equipment helps. Prep properly and use quality paints. Never stand on a lid of a 5 gallon bucket and do not stack buckets to paint the stairway

[naptownCr]

My ideal painter would do the following.
Prime the walls, sand apply two coats of flat paint before starting in on the gloss stuff.

If they see a defect n the drywall FIX IT.

would not do touch up over a patch without priming especially on a gloss finish.

No whining or crying.

Show up when you say

Finish when you say

clean up after yourself

don't frighten the customer.

don't clean your brushes in the kitchen sink and leave paint residue all over the new $700 blanco sink and $5000.00 granite tops.

This would be a short list there will be more.

Be housebroken.

[uwing]

Common sense is what it sound like your asking. Simple enough.

[Silvertree]

Glad you found your match. did it cost you more?

No, good work and co workers are usually worth what you pay.

I know a few good painting contractors and enjoy working with them. I think their prices are what they should be. They make me look good.

[Blue]

Don't huff it...just put it on the wall

[nEighter]

see I knew you would like it here uwing.. great question

[Silvertree]

Don't huff it...just put it on the wall

Oh yeah, forgot about that one:2thumbsup:

[uwing]

That work for you or are you looking for paint tips, then I'd say good equipment helps. Prep properly and use quality paints. Never stand on a lid of a 5 gallon bucket and do not stack buckets to paint the stairway

No! Mr Paul, I am not looking for tip on how to paint. I always ask my GC's what the likes and dislikes of their SUBS. I appreciate all your input and it is valued. I recently took a job over from another painter. I have never been kicked off, I know the troubles it can be switching out any subs. so you have to be really pissed off to kick a sub off. so just wondering what that takes

[uwing]

Don't huff it...just put it on the wall

Can I puff?

[TulsaRemodeler]

I have been a painting contractor myself, and jobsite superintendent and head punch over a screaming one unit a day production (one house unit, duplex unit, condo unit, etc) pushed out and closed everyday average. You think thats easy? Take a stab.

In the end game the paint contractor (and employees) can make or break it.

[uwing]

I have been a painting contractor myself, and jobsite superintendent and head punch over a screaming one unit a day production (one house unit, duplex unit, condo unit, etc) pushed out and closed everyday average. You think thats easy? Take a stab.

In the end game the paint contractor (and employees) can make or break it.

My friend, I know production. I can do that in my sleep. I ran a crew of over 200, had 4 superintendent and 15 foremen under me. I have painted for some of the largest home builders (lennar, DR, Khov, ect.). the biggist track of homes I was on was 650. to be honest with you I was getting bored with it. The economy tanked, I then started my own business. Here I am. chasing repaints and commercial jobs. I will never return to that work UNLESS of course the money is good.

[TulsaRemodeler]

My friend, I know production. I can do that in my sleep. I ran a crew of over 200, had 4 superintendent and 15 foremen under me. I have painted for some of the largest home builders (lennar, DR, Khov, ect.). the biggist track of homes I was on was 650.
Then you probably understand getting things done. Now welcome to remodeling. A different sort of endeavor.

[orson]

Probably my two biggest complaints about painters other than the common sense stuff like cleanup and customer relations etc:

Learn how to roll eggshell and satin without leaving tails, and yes, I know that involves putting less paint on the wall per coat and actually having to do 2 coats.

Get the joint compound out either before you roll the wall or between the 1st and second coat and fix the little dings and scratches. Sand out a spot if the drywaller missed it. And no, I don't want to hear "It's the drywaller's job..." unless you want to pack your stuff up and go home while I call the drywaller back.

[TulsaRemodeler]

And no, I don't want to hear "It's the drywaller's job..." unless you want to pack your stuff up and go home while I call the drywaller back.
Exactly, suck it up and go the extra 1/4 mile.

[kevjob]

for that very reason I hire companies who do both painting and drywall so I can have my cake and eat theirs too!:grin:

[ModernStyle]

I wont fix a drywaller mistake, it might be a small unsanded spot the first time, then the guy misses more and more as time goes on.
I worked a job at a college where the drywaller had skimmed out a wall, someone then moved a table against the wall. So when the drywall guy comes back he just sands around the table. I get ready to paint and there is a table shaped unsanded area, no way I was gonna do the guys job for him.
Painters are always the lowest man on the totem pole, we will get bumped around and told to get out of every other trades way. We will have other trades take too long, and then we are expected to pick up their slack and do our thing in half the time so that the project is still completed on time, with all that going on I aint got time to fix a lazy drywallers mess. I will throw in an extra or 2 here and there, but I dont do other trades work, if your drywaller misses stuff then maybe you need a new drywaller.

[uwing]

Suck what up! I prefrom in a timly matter at a competive price while producing a qualty product.
That all you all want in a nut shell. Right?

[TulsaRemodeler]

Suck what up!
Go drink yourself a cold beer or something :grin:

[TulsaRemodeler]

I wont fix a drywaller mistake, it might be a small unsanded spot the first time, then the guy misses more and more as time goes on.
I worked a job at a college where the drywaller had skimmed out a wall, someone then moved a table against the wall. So when the drywall guy comes back he just sands around the table. I get ready to paint and there is a table shaped unsanded area, no way I was gonna do the guys job for him.
Painters are always the lowest man on the totem pole, we will get bumped around and told to get out of every other trades way. We will have other trades take too long, and then we are expected to pick up their slack and do our thing in half the time so that the project is still completed on time, with all that going on I aint got time to fix a lazy drywallers mess. I will throw in an extra or 2 here and there, but I dont do other trades work, if your drywaller misses stuff then maybe you need a new drywaller.
I hear you, and you are right. But if you want to set yourself apart from the pack take charge. Be the painter that delivers.

[orson]

I wont fix a drywaller mistake, it might be a small unsanded spot the first time, then the guy misses more and more as time goes on.
I worked a job at a college where the drywaller had skimmed out a wall, someone then moved a table against the wall. So when the drywall guy comes back he just sands around the table. I get ready to paint and there is a table shaped unsanded area, no way I was gonna do the guys job for him.
Painters are always the lowest man on the totem pole, we will get bumped around and told to get out of every other trades way. We will have other trades take too long, and then we are expected to pick up their slack and do our thing in half the time so that the project is still completed on time, with all that going on I aint got time to fix a lazy drywallers mess. I will throw in an extra or 2 here and there, but I dont do other trades work, if your drywaller misses stuff then maybe you need a new drywaller.

Someone with your mentality would only ever work for me once.

My drywaller is a pro, but just the nature of drywall and my clumsy butt walking through the house with a 2x4 means there are going to be a few small issues here and there.

On my jobsites it is the painter's job to make all the rest of us look great rather than just good and I let the painter know ahead of time I expect them to fix minor drywall issues and presume that they charge me accordingly.

[ModernStyle]

If the plumber scratches the paint off of a handrail carrying a sink into the house does he repaint it ?
I will do the work according to contract, if a GC wants to put a set amount of hours in the contract for touch ups and things then that is fine, but unless I am paid to do something, it aint getting done.

[Blue]

If the plumber scratches the paint off of a handrail carrying a sink into the house does he repaint it ?
No worries I wouldnt even put a bid in on your jobs

Get you butt back over to the Central St. house. The carpet layers got graffiti all over.

[TulsaRemodeler]

I will do the work according to contract
Damn I wish you hadnt said that.

[ModernStyle]

If I miss a wall will the flooring guys hit it for me, just to show you they are good subs ... hell no.... you will call me back mad as hell. Drywalll subs got phones to .... just sayin'

[TulsaRemodeler]

If I miss a wall will the flooring guys hit it for me, just to show you they are good subs ... hell no.... you will call me back mad as hell. Drywalll subs got phones to .... just sayin'
Painters are the last guys out, get used to it.

[ModernStyle]

I am used to it, I have been in the game for 16 years.

[bikerboy]

On my jobsites it is the painter's job to make all the rest of us look great rather than just good and I let the painter know ahead of time I expect them to fix minor drywall issues and presume that they charge me accordingly.

In all of my years around the paint biz, you are one of the few who recognizes that fixing it is extra work, and are willing to pay for it. You are the kind of contractor that good painters WANT to work for.

Many expect the painters to fix everyone elses mistakes and eat it.

[TulsaRemodeler]

In all of my years around the paint biz, you are one of the few who recognizes that fixing it is extra work, and are willing to pay for it. You are the kind of contractor that good painters WANT to work for.

Many expect the painters to fix everyone elses mistakes and eat it.
If youre experienced then you factor it in, it doesnt suprise.

[Eieio]

My painters usually average 500-1500 in extras fixing drywall repairs on the job.. I back charge everyone that messes up the finish product..

$250 each patch.. I don't care if its the size of a quarter.. Stops a whole lot of the BS in its track

[TulsaRemodeler]

My painters usually average 500-1500 in extras fixing drywall repairs on the job.. I back charge everyone that messes up the finish product..

$250 each patch.. I don't care if its the size of a quarter.. Stops a whole lot of the BS in its track
Thats hardcore, I'd be very carefull in your houses.

[Eieio]

Thats hardcore, I'd be very carefull in your houses.

If I cause the error I swallow the fee and pay it to the painter..

If a sub or my guys just make a stupid error it comes out their checks.. Everyone knows the drill..

Makes them stop and read the lay outs, check spec's and a lots of padding, gloves, surgical boots and caution yelling happens on my job sites

[bikerboy]

My painters usually average 500-1500 in extras fixing drywall repairs on the job.. I back charge everyone that messes up the finish product..

$250 each patch.. I don't care if its the size of a quarter.. Stops a whole lot of the BS in its track

You sir...are my hero. And a realist. If you are ever looking........... :grin:

[bikerboy]

If I cause the error I swallow the fee and pay it to the painter..

If a sub or my guys just make a stupid error it comes out their checks.. Everyone knows the drill..

Makes them stop and read the lay outs, check spec's and a lots of padding, gloves, surgical boots and caution yelling happens on my job sites

We just did a job at the Avalon Theater in Easton ,MD this summer. After the floor guys came in only my crew and the Super put on the booties that were right next to the door. We were also the only guys hired for more work by the GC.

[Eieio]

You sir...are my hero. And a realist. If you are ever looking........... :grin:

You should see and hear them moving things into place its comical when you out side the house..

Ok to the left,, noo my left..

careful, careful, I said careful man..

stop, stop, jeez man watch the damn wall you almost touch it..

where's your gloves?? get a pair out the van and come back..

do you have your covers for your boots don't come back with out them on and track anything on the floor..

I ain't paint the painter a dime this time.. :laugh3:

[orson]

My painters usually average 500-1500 in extras fixing drywall repairs on the job.. I back charge everyone that messes up the finish product..

$250 each patch.. I don't care if its the size of a quarter.. Stops a whole lot of the BS in its track

We just finished a 3000SF house that had new ceilings and plaster walls repaired top to bottom.

So far I have seen 4 dings in the house and I know I did 2 of them personally hoofing stacks of 16 ft. 1x6 up the stairs.

The plasterer fixed 2 of them (without me asking him to), the other 2 I didn't see until after paint.

Modern,

You're making a lot of assumptions and applying your experiences with other GC's to me. I'm not trying to make a pissing match out of this.

I respect all my subs time and I respect the fact that if they need to make a profit too.

The only contractor that sucks it up and loses money on my jobs is me (unless they screwed up their bid somehow). My clients get the same high level of service and final product whether it's a high end bathroom or a low budget project, but you'll never hear the line "hey man, can you help me out on this one?" or the good old "we'll make it up on the next one" coming out of my lips.

In return I ask that everyone work as a team to produce a great project.

[Silvertree]

I'm with you Orson, I don't ask the subs to help me out, they get the scope and give me a price and that's how it gets sold.

I had a guy ask me a couple of months ago what his price was (a GC) after I gave him his price. I don't look at his jobs anymore.

[WarnerConstInc.]

Painters are almost as bad as plumbers!!

I don't like doing other people's work for them either.

[Winchester]

The things I would like in a painter are the same things I would like in any sub:


Always present a professional Image
Quality work
Keep their word
Care for the site and customers (clean and safe)
Can play nice with others (get along with other subs)

[uwing]

I think it on both ends, it takes a good GC and/or superintendent to run a good flowing job. It says a lot when you walk in the unit, floor is swept, walls are blades/sanded, ect.

I've worked for some that have the "suck it up" attitude. Trash every where, textured sprayed on jambs. So what your saying is "so what that its not ready for you, I don't care". A well ORGANIZED contractor will have everything ready by any subs start date. And hold EACH accountable for there own contracted work.

If you don't care to take the time to make sure all your subs are performing according their contract. Then your not worth my time simply because I can't make money off you. It also shows me as a sub that you don't really care about your subs (not being a trade partner).

Rather you fall behind schedules (for whatever excuse is) have everyone on top of each other. Then "Mr painter! Fix it and get it done in half the time and I'm not paying a dime extra. (Suck it up)
.
Ya, I have had my share of BAD GC's, just as you GC's have had your share with bad subs. Which is why you GC's should be weeded out just like you weed your subs out. I have never understood why a contractor thinks one sub should pay for another trades bad craftsmanship.
.
I build relationships out there. Because a relationship will protect each others money and TIME, helping each other if the job gets behind or Mr drywaller didn't get his tags finished, without a hefty back charge. If your not willing to build a relationship then I will use you just like you use your subs. If you hold me to the law I will hold you accountable aswell
Gabe

[ModernStyle]

I am not trying to be insulting to anyone or start a pissing match. I have worked for some great GC's and when I am treated fairly then I am all about going the extra mile, I mean if my name is on a job then I want it to look the best.
With that being said I have worked for some GC's and builders that really pissed me off. I am pretty easy going on the jobsite and usually get along with everyone.
If a guy has no regard for the time and effort that I put into my work then I have no regard for him. For example on my last big commercial job the guy installing the acoustical ceiling paid no mind that the walls and door jambs were done, he went ahead and drug his scaffolding across both of them. The GC comes to me and wants to know what happened, so I tell him. He then tells me to fix it all. Fine, who do I send the bill to? He says if I want to work anymore of his jobs I will just fix it. Now I get the choice of either eating the cost of 3 days work plus more materials, or telling the GC to go to hell, which would mean never working for him again probably. I went with the second option, because if I let them walk all over me once then they know they have me.
Not all GC's are bad, but there are some out there.

[uwing]

I had a guy ask me a couple of months ago what his price was (a GC) after I gave him his price. I don't look at his jobs anymore.

Can you expand on this.

[NEPS]

It sounds like the GC's here are expecting their painters to be the top 10% of the industry and expect them to clean up after all of their other trades. The real question is are they willing to pay for the high level of service and quality they expect to recieve? If you pay for hamburg dont expect filet.

[uwing]

NEPppppppS what up missed you man

[TulsaRemodeler]

I am not trying to be insulting to anyone or start a pissing match. I have worked for some great GC's and when I am treated fairly then I am all about going the extra mile, I mean if my name is on a job then I want it to look the best.
With that being said I have worked for some GC's and builders that really pissed me off. I am pretty easy going on the jobsite and usually get along with everyone.
If a guy has no regard for the time and effort that I put into my work then I have no regard for him. For example on my last big commercial job the guy installing the acoustical ceiling paid no mind that the walls and door jambs were done, he went ahead and drug his scaffolding across both of them. The GC comes to me and wants to know what happened, so I tell him. He then tells me to fix it all. Fine, who do I send the bill to? He says if I want to work anymore of his jobs I will just fix it. Now I get the choice of either eating the cost of 3 days work plus more materials, or telling the GC to go to hell, which would mean never working for him again probably. I went with the second option, because if I let them walk all over me once then they know they have me.
Not all GC's are bad, but there are some out there.
A good GC is all over backcharges, still there is suck it up. New construction and remodeling are different animals. More suck it up in new construction and less so in remodeling. It isnt right if you have to drive 20 miles to fix damage on one unit that isnt your fault, not a big deal if you have to fix something that is next door.

[Eieio]

A good GC is all over backcharges, still there is suck it up. New construction and remodeling are different animals. More suck it up in new construction and less so in remodeling. It isnt right if you have to drive 20 miles to fix damage on one unit that isnt your fault, not a big deal if you have to fix something that is next door.

This is a very good point.. I think most of the painters have worked for GC's and not remodelers..

[ModernStyle]

This is a very good point.. I think most of the painters have worked for GC's and not remodelers..

I have worked for both, I prefer the remodelers because I get to show off more of my skills and usually get a say in product selection. New commercial is always spec'd for this and that, and you cant really show off much when you are painting metal door jambs and rolling block filler

[uwing]

I will agree. I really don't chase after remodelers. Because 90% of their jobs are k&b's. A small ticket item for me and most remodelers think their painters and paint it themselves. When they do give me a job they act like its big time or something. Not to offend any one. I see them all the time at home depot buying the some of the cheapest crap like Behr paint. Not all though.
.
I'm sure this is going to piss someone off.

[Eieio]

I will agree. I really don't chase after remodelers. Because 90% of their jobs are k&b's. A small ticket item for me and most remodelers think their painters and paint it themselves. When they do give me a job they act like its big time or something. Not to offend any one. I see them all the time at home depot buying the some of the cheapest crap like Behr paint. Not all though.
.
I'm sure this is going to piss someone off.

Remodels and repaints are good money here. The prep work is very difficult especially on the plaster walls..

2500-3500 sf basic repaint. 2 or 3 colors start around 6-10K you not using home depot paint on that. I also have no need to beat up anyone on pricing you give me a bid and I put my mark up on it and give to the HO..

There is not much to it.. Maybe other GC's Just suck

[orson]

It sounds like the GC's here are expecting their painters to be the top 10% of the industry and expect them to clean up after all of their other trades. The real question is are they willing to pay for the high level of service and quality they expect to recieve? If you pay for hamburg dont expect filet.

I do expect my painter to be top 10%, because I want to be top 10% :2thumbsup:

I will agree. I really don't chase after remodelers. Because 90% of their jobs are k&b's. A small ticket item for me and most remodelers think their painters and paint it themselves. When they do give me a job they act like its big time or something. Not to offend any one. I see them all the time at home depot buying the some of the cheapest crap like Behr paint. Not all though.
.
I'm sure this is going to piss someone off.

Not me, I can roll walls like a champ and I'm fair with a spraygun too, I can't cut in against a ceiling and get it up to my standards to save my life. You can't say "get the ceiling paint back out" fast enough. :mad2:

Usually I'll do final touch up myself, for a single room. I can handle it in small doses.

I think you're missing out on a good market though if you can find the good remodelers.

[topcoat]

My painters usually average 500-1500 in extras fixing drywall repairs on the job.. I back charge everyone that messes up the finish product..

$250 each patch.. I don't care if its the size of a quarter.. Stops a whole lot of the BS in its track


Who enforces this? How do you accurately determine who caused each little ding and scuff that the painter is fixing? Video surveillance monitored on your iphone would be cool. It would be a full time job to truly enforce this, and as a sub I'd be concerned that other more critical issues werent being attended to. It aint the elephants that'll kill you, its the mosquitoes.

Personally, I try to factor into the pricing those ancillary items. Alot of it can pretty efficiently be wrapped into in between coat prep. Its when stuff happens to absolute finished product that it raises my blood pressure. That in turn makes communication between builder and painter critical so that sequencing happens in such a way as to minimize the likelihood of damage to finished surfaces.

[Decoman]

this thread bringing out all the painters tonight...

[uwing]

Don't get me wrong. Understand where I live. California. The majority of remodelers do k&b. I do, do painting for some but I got to pick and chose. Like I said that's only 10% of them. I do mostly repaints. I love repaints, just like modern said it shows if you are a real painter or not.

[Eieio]

Who enforces this? How do you accurately determine who caused each little ding and scuff that the painter is fixing? Video surveillance monitored on your iphone would be cool. It would be a full time job to truly enforce this, and as a sub I'd be concerned that other more critical issues werent being attended to. It aint the elephants that'll kill you, its the mosquitoes.

Personally, I try to factor into the pricing those ancillary items. Alot of it can pretty efficiently be wrapped into in between coat prep. Its when stuff happens to absolute finished product that it raises my blood pressure. That in turn makes communication between builder and painter critical so that sequencing happens in such a way as to minimize the likelihood of damage to finished surfaces.

Touch up is anticipated and priced in.. Gouges, cutting holes to find or add stuff miss etc.. We know who did it and your gonna pay,.

[topcoat]

Touch up is anticipated and priced in.. Gouges, cutting holes to find or add stuff miss etc.. We know who did it and your gonna pay,.

That makes sense. Stuff that obviously points back to a specific trade. And there are plenty of things that do. The greasy fingerprints around the around the light fixtures for instance. We had a glass company tear up a master bathroom three times before they finally got the right mirror installed the right way. Obvious blunders, backcharge for sure. The anonymous wear and tear damage that is inherent in the unfortunate logistics of jobsites and materials, you are smart to just get it priced in. Someone can pay for that besides you and me. Good plan.

[Leo G]

Common sense is what it sound like your asking. Simple enough.

Sorry, but common sense is anything but common. I find that people with real common sense are a rare breed indeed.:thumbsdown:

[RCP]

Some of you make it sound like it is "us against them". We work with a couple of great GCs doing remodels and NC. Because we are a small town, several use the same subs. It is more of a team atmosphere. It is much easier to have good "symbiotic" relationships on the job site.

[ModernStyle]

Some of you make it sound like it is "us against them". We work with a couple of great GCs doing remodels and NC. Because we are a small town, several use the same subs. It is more of a team atmosphere. It is much easier to have good "symbiotic" relationships on the job site.

Chris ...... you invited your GC to the site didnt you ?

[RCP]

Chris ...... you invited your GC to the site didnt you ?

I actually did! I am working with one on his marketing and SEO! I have also been creating videos for him. Most of the GCs here not net savy! :mad:

[Eieio]

Some of you make it sound like it is "us against them". We work with a couple of great GCs doing remodels and NC. Because we are a small town, several use the same subs. It is more of a team atmosphere. It is much easier to have good "symbiotic" relationships on the job site.


There is no I in Team

[Bender]

Buncha whiny-ass painters:rolleyes3: Jeeze

[Century Man]

There is no I in Team

But there is me.

[dan-o]

Exactly, suck it up and go the extra 1/4 mile.

While I fully agree with this, my 'sucking it up' stops precisely at what I'm getting compensated for.

We're currently painting a high-end NC; GC told me specifically that all prep would be done (nails filled etc) so my bid reflected that. Showed up and the prep was so poor we redid everything and billed accordingly. He fully understood and thanked me for not just painting over the crap work (I lost a few prime Fall days cleaning up after his mess).

To the OP, I recently took on some work from a new GC whose painter 'disappeared' on him. Asked myself a lot of the same questions re: how to best meet his needs. After a few jobs I realized why the other guy split; this tool was a nightmare to get paid from.

[Eieio]

I think it just comes down to the GC or Remodelers you work for.. Some of us get it others won't..

I guess you just have to try and choose wisely and hope they do the right thing by you..

[bikerboy]

Some of you make it sound like it is "us against them". We work with a couple of great GCs doing remodels and NC. Because we are a small town, several use the same subs. It is more of a team atmosphere. It is much easier to have good "symbiotic" relationships on the job site.

Am not trying to come off like that. The GC we did the theater for took great care of us. I wound up re-painting a piece of trim on the edge of the stage 4 times because of other trades. Never whined because the guy looked out for me. By the same token, when staining and clearing the custom bar and tables was added, the GC TOLD us to pad the change order to relfect some of the "extras" we did.

You hit the nail on the head. If you have built a good relationship with a contractor or remodeler it is mutually beneficial. You take care of each other. You are willing to go the extra mile not only for recompense but because it comes back to you some way, some how.

If I had to pick the worst to sub from it would be big new construction. (KB, Lennar, Ryan and such) IMHO the true custom guys (NC or Remodel) while demanding, are willing to take care of you and expect the same in return. (also expect a higher level of craftsmanship.)