Doors for Splinter

[Leo G]

Got a call a short while back from Alex about making some doors. The one's he was complaining about from that company in New Mexico. Gave me some dimensions and a few pics. I sent him a CAD drawing and we discussed dimensions, swings and what he wants with slabs and pre-hungs. I started on them a short while ago and finally have some progress pictures to show.

I hate this 4 picture limit crap. HEY LEN, can ya do something about that. Thanks.

CAD drawing of the door:
http://fototime.com/BDED5FCCEC2644C/orig.jpg

Tenon Jig setup with two blades:
http://fototime.com/401E9D98BAF1EEC/orig.jpg

Pile of lower center stiles:
http://fototime.com/E71C92E5823A50D/orig.jpg

Bunch of door parts:
http://fototime.com/9FB61B081B8EED2/orig.jpg

[Leo G]

5" Side stiles with a chip out groove dadoed in:
http://fototime.com/166607CCBDC9CB9/orig.jpg

Shaper dado setup:
http://fototime.com/9EF57C38D632386/orig.jpg

http://fototime.com/A11F8D1824EB680/orig.jpg

Full depth dado:
http://fototime.com/DEBA5D736B8ABDD/orig.jpg

[Leo G]

Free hand shaper to do the upper curved rail dado:
http://fototime.com/670AB1069881F7D/orig.jpg

18" door frame, no panels:
http://fototime.com/02BF838C5D04708/orig.jpg

24":
http://fototime.com/7C54032F33B4E9F/orig.jpg

30":
http://fototime.com/7A1BA3436BD8857/orig.jpg

[Leo G]

Stile to rail joint:
http://fototime.com/678078494CD2253/orig.jpg

Center stile to rail joint on curved upper rail:
http://fototime.com/A9506F92F3BBC66/orig.jpg

Here is the short description of the process:

The doors started out as rough Alder. The wood comes in with an abrasive sanded surface. The wood comes in like it would if you ordered it skip planed. So my 8/4 cam in at 1 15/16” thick and the 4/4 came in at 15/16”. The wood was a lot knottier than I expected it to be. I ordered 450 BD FT of the 8/4, which was 50% more than I needed for the job. By the time I got through picking out the 5” side styles, the 4” center styles and made some glue ups for the rails I was out of useable wood. Too many knots. I had to order another 250 BD FT to get what I needed. I was 6 side styles short, the 6 had to many defects. I got another 7 out of the 250 BD FT, that was it, 7. I was hoping to get many more. But I was able to get the rest of the rails glued up out of it. They were glued up in 24” wide blanks so I could use the wood more efficiently. I had already thrown out 3 - 39 gallon trash bags of scrap.

So after the parts were cut to rough size I faced them and planed them. Brought them over to another shop and sent everything through the wide belt sander. Brought everything to 1 3/4”. After that was completed back to my shop to joint an edge run it through the saw and then joint the other edge. Normally I would send it through the planer, but the wood is chippy and I didn’t want to take the chance. With the jointer I can go slow and prevent the chipping. I made sure to keep the pressure on the back table so it would take off a thickness instead of straighten and possible taper the board.

After everything was turned into dimensioned boards I was onto sizing lengths. Cut the rails and lower center style to length. Then made a jig to do the upper curve. All 3 door widths have the same radius curve, the center of the apex of the curve to the edge of the rail is 5 1/8”. The outer edges vary with the width of the doors. The wider the door, the wider the edges of the tip rail is. I then made a simple jig to cut the same matching radius into the upper center rail. I did the rough cut on the tablesaw. The jig was a ½” pc of MDF as a base and a 3/8” pc of MDF the same width as the center rail. There were two sizes of rails, 3 ½” and 4” so there were two different width jigs. I set a nail 22” from the edge of the swinging part of the jig. The base had a guide in the slot of the tablesaw. You take the center stile and use 2 clamps to secure it to the swinging arm. Then you put the base so the swinging are would be near the start of the blade, then you swing the arm and the blade would cut the radius. You push the base forward about ½” and do it again. Repeat this about 6 times and the radius on the top of the style was cut. Unfortunately the cut didn’t end up perfectly square. It was from the geometry of the swing. So I took the same jig and put it on the oscillating edge sander and tuned up the cut, used the same jig, just had to move the miter slot stick.

Then I setup the tenon jig. I use a double blade setup to make a ¾” tenon. I have two saws, so one was set to do the tenon and the other to cut the shoulder. I cut the shoulder to about .998” +/- .003”. But I did this later.

Set up the W & H molder with a newly made ¼” bead. I had it custom ground so the straight sections coming up had a 1/32” radius so there would be little to no sanding of the edge. That was the smartest thing I had done when ordering a cutter in a long time, it worked excellent. Ran all of the parts that needed beading through the machine. The bead is about 1/32” below the surface so sanding won’t flatten the top of the bead. The only thing not beaded was the top curved rail.

Then I setup the shaper with a ¾” straight cutter. Ran a few pcs and to my dismay the cutter was producing a chipped edge. I knew it would happen, I just hoped it wouldn’t. So all of the pcs would have to go thought twice. The first pass was a bit deeper than 1/16” and I got no chip out. Then the second pass took out the other 15/16” and left no chip out. I was good to go. The only difference was the center stiles. I only did a ½” deep dado. This is to save wood on the panels. The top of the top center stile also got a ½” deep dado. I will glue and screw a loose tenon in there. This made it easier to get the curve on the top.

Then I broke down the shaper and took off the fence. Put a bearing under the shaper cutter and took out the curved jig I had made for the radius. Ran all of the tops so they hade a ½” deep dado. I used the same jig to route a smooth square edge on the band sawed edge with a router and a flush bit.

After that I made another jig for the W & H. It was the mate to the curve. I have done curved stuff on the W & H on several occasions. But this would be different. All the other radius moldings I had made were trapped between two fences. But because this had a curved edge and a square edge this couldn’t be done. I had a single test pc to experiment on. We sent it through and when it hit the outfeed roller it wanted to go straight instead of following the curve. This was going to be a problem. I thought about it for a minute and figured the problem was the outfeed roller has to much pressure on it. I lessened the pressure on both the in and outfeed rollers and that did the trick. We could hold the part up against the fence without it coming away from it. Worked very well. Only one of them got a small chip out near the end of the pc.

Now I took the shoulders off all the parts that had tenons. Started to fit the parts so we could get the length of the upper center stile. Put the door frame together and butted the the curved portions together and marked a line on the center stile, added an inch and cut it, tenoned it and removed the shoulders. Fit things together and it was a good match.

Measured up for panels. That is as far as I am now. Tomorrow I will start making panels.

I guess it isn't that short. :rolleyes3:

[Winchester]

very nice.

I'm intrigued by the two-blade thing, I've never seen that before.

it's like a dado without the shims (a spacer instead?)?

[Leo G]

Two full size 10" blades with a wooden spacer in between. The spacer is about 1/32" bigger than the tenon I need. This is because the teeth hang over the plate of the blace (kerf). Makes it easy to make an accurate thicknessed tenon in one pass. All you have to worry about is alignment of the tenon on the pc of wood. Once that is taken care of you don't have issues. I use a Wixey digital height gauge to set the height of the blade. This is a 1" long tenon so I set the blade height to .994". Don't know why I need to lose .006" but that is the way it is. It is very consistent.

[mikea]

Top of the line quality as usual Leo,very nice job.

Must have been digging under the bench for saw blades :laugh3:

[Leo G]

Actually I was. I was looking for a couple of 8 1/2" Diablo blades that I thought I had a stack of. I must have tossed them, I can't imagine me throwing them out, but I can't find them so I must have. But for 10" blades I have quite a few. None of them are the same diameter though. Sharpening causes that.


I did have an issue though. When I got the new shaper cutter it was .764" instead of .750 like it should have been. So I added a shim to the wood spacer and then put the arbor nut on and promptly stripped it.

From the looks of it the nut was on its way out anyway, this was the last straw. So I spent 3 hours finding and getting a new one. I got 2, cost about $8.50ea. The new nut is nice and tight on the arbor. The guy says that the nuts are expendable. So I guess they are made from a much softer material than the arbor. I can't believe I wore out the nut in about 2.5 years. My Jet saw still has the original nut and it is 20 years old and I used it everyday for 15 years.

[Bender]

Very impressive Leo. A true craftsman.

[J F]

I think the first set of doors he bought where much nicer






































http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv135/Jay123_bucket/Smileys/16896993.gif http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv135/Jay123_bucket/Smileys/9c7bf403.gif

[Leo G]

Very impressive Leo. A true craftsman.

Nothing any woodworker with 20 years experience and $30K worth of equipment could't do. :mad2:

[JasonW]

Lookin' good Leo!:2thumbsup:

[nEighter]

top notch man!

[Splinter]

yeah, yeah, yeah.. less forum posting, more shop time... get back to work! :grin:

[Leo G]

http://fototime.com/E4E18B0D66D6AB2/orig.gif

[mmike032]

looks good from here..
nice work as always

[Leo G]

So today I cut up stock for 89 panels, glued up 16 Cherry panels (for a kitchen) and 18 Alder panels. The rest of them were not glued, just rough sized, face jointed and planed. Picked out the stock for the jambs for the doors, but haven't cut it yet.

My brother came by the other day and again today. He is working on a window sill for a picture window for my sister. Of course I am providing the lumber (Cypress), the tooling and advice.

Tomorrow we go to the guy with the widebelt sander and sand all the panels. Then RO sand them and start assembling doors.

[Splinter]

Sweet!

Go easy with the RO, eh? I've ordered doors from several custom manufacturers over the years and they almost always have some swirleys that stand out after staining. You just cant see 'em when the doors are unfinished, and after you spray a color on 'em, it's too late to do anything.

I have to finish sand these to 220. It really helps with the blotchy-ness, and stain mix I came up with....

Didnt get to photo the other doors already installed. Got a call early this morning that Mom broke her pelvis after a bad fall on the ice. Had to drive to the other side of Long Island to tell her not to do that again....

[Leo G]

Good luck with that sanding to 220 grit. You'll be getting 150 grit from me. I never sand any higher than that unless it is the inside of a drawer, then I go to 220. I already told you how to avoid the blotchies. Use the clear stain base.

Still a good amount of work to get through. Let alone all the final sanding. Gotta make the jambs and mortise for the hinges.

I plan on making the jambs with a 1/4" T&G joint for the jamb/header joint.
http://fototime.com/E3AA57D6C60EAF2/orig.jpg

No problem I assume.

[Splinter]

No problem I assume.


I'd prefer 33/128th's please....

[naptownCr]

Good luck with that sanding to 220 grit. You'll be getting 150 grit from me. I never sand any higher than that unless it is the inside of a drawer, then I go to 220. I already told you how to avoid the blotchies. Use the clear stain base.

Still a good amount of work to get through. Let alone all the final sanding. Gotta make the jambs and mortise for the hinges.

I plan on making the jambs with a 1/4" T&G joint for the jamb/header joint.
http://fototime.com/E3AA57D6C60EAF2/orig.jpg

No problem I assume.

I got a problem with that.
Why not just dado the side jamb and leave a 1/2" ear and slip the head jamb into it. Kinds like a traditional door jamb is made and not a cabinet.

[Leo G]

Space issues with the RO's. The doors are 79 1/2" instead of the traditional 80" to boot.

[naptownCr]

Space issues with the RO's. The doors are 79 1/2" instead of the traditional 80" to boot.

RO's too short that explains it.

[Leo G]

I'd prefer 33/128th's please....

The dado will be 33/128" the tongue will be 32/128"

[WarnerConstInc.]

You need a wide belt sander and a couple festool RO's, make your life easier.

I never go past 150, on anything, ok not unless I polish it and put wax on it.

[Winchester]

I'm very tired and you guys really had me confused with your "RO"s there :mad2::mad2:

I'm thinking "why does he need to sand a rough opening?"

:smash::smash:

[Splinter]

I usually dont go past 150 either... The final sanding grit really makes a huge difference though when staining. I'm dealing with a couple different types of wood on this project, and to get everything to match well, each wood requires a slightly different finishing technique. I found that wiping down the Alder doors with 220 before finishing gave me just the right color to match all the Maple trim that surrounds them.

[Splinter]

Space issues with the RO's. The doors are 79 1/2" instead of the traditional 80" to boot.

Yep, the wonderful world of remodel work...

[naptownCr]

Let me interrupt this thread with an important announcment.
RO in sanding terms = random orbit
RO in door sizes relates to rough opening size.
Thank you and sorry for the confusion
carry on

[WarnerConstInc.]

Ok thanks RO!!


(Rediculos Ogre)

[Leo G]

OK, then what does FO mean to you?

[WarnerConstInc.]

Friends Over?

Leo, I am not sure if I am comfortable having a sleep over with you yet.

[Leo G]

Try finished opening. This is what I get with a face frame opening.

I'm not even close to being ready to see you in your jammies.

[WarnerConstInc.]

Try finished opening. This is what I get with a face frame opening.

I'm not even close to being ready to see you in your jammies.

I knew what it was.

I have some really cool pj's with the footsie's attached.:laugh3:

[Leo G]

I bet they're green.

[neolitic]

I bet they're green.

And you really don't want
to see the dust collection
attachment point.

[Leo G]

Make it stop, I can't get the picture out of my mind of your vacuum extraction jammies.

[neolitic]

Make it stop, I can't get the picture out of my mind of your vacuum extraction jammies.

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/neoliticman/lol.gifhttp://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/neoliticman/lol.gif

[Leo G]

Got the panels wide belt sanded today. Maybe even get a few doors glued up.

[Splinter]

Why does every thread around here have to get sidetracked with Festool Jammies? :)

[Leo G]

Got all of the panels sanded, along with the Cherry kitchen door panels. Sized all the panels to rectangular shape. Took all of the 5" side stiles and sorted through them. Needed 8 perfect ones, 10 really nice ones and 12 good on the front. Found what we needed. Needed to make the tenon for the top center stile on the curved side and fit it in the center stile. RO Sanded up the panels for the 18" door and glued it. Glued up 3 top and bottom sections for the 24" doors. Tomorrow we should be able to assemble the rest.

Top section glued up with curved top panels.
http://fototime.com/8E23030425ABDC3/orig.jpg

Bottom section glued up without panels.
http://fototime.com/DD67839A2B50C98/orig.jpg

Glued up 18" door.
http://fototime.com/9684A916D4FB717/orig.jpg

[Leo G]

No pics today. Spaced.

10 of the 15 doors are glued up. Went well, just taking longer than we figured, as most jobs do. One little problem this morning. I was sorting the parts out to their respective doors and found out I made two extra 4" center stiles and was missing two 3 1/2" center stiles. Whoops. Took less 15 minutes to make both of them, nice to have the setups still around. Finish up the assembly of doors tomorrow and start on the jambs.

[Splinter]

I'd bust on you for working X-mas eve tomorrow, but I'll be doing the same... sort of...

The heater core in my F-150 has been leaking, so after several failed attempts at stop-leak, I'm doing the replacement. The book estimates an 8 hour job. The entire dash including steering column, airbags, etc., all have to come out. Tomorrow is the only day I can do it. No, I'm not paying a mechanic $1K to do it..

My truck will look like this at some point tomorrow:

[Leo G]

I gotta work on Saturday to make a mantle for the theater job because they are having a party on Monday. Mantle, some door casing and a frame for the component rack - it has to be gloss black. I think it will be installed on Monday afternoon. Just in time for the party. Hopefully the outgassing of the finish won't smell too much.

Go ahead and bust on me. I need an excuse to work on the mantle and get it done sooner.

[WarnerConstInc.]

I like being under the gun too.

If Leo stayed home his wife would put him to work!!

[Leo G]

I'd sit on my ass and watch her vacuum.

[Leo G]

Finished the doors for Alex. Don't really have any real pictures, just phone pics.

Stack of 15 finished doors
http://fototime.com/5BE50E73807DD04/orig.jpg

Shop made mortising jig
http://fototime.com/908E4CF256596A6/orig.jpg

Finished doors hung in jambs
http://fototime.com/20179A29E02FB4D/orig.jpg

[Splinter]

Well, chit, Leo... Didnt you get my email canceling this order? I dont want them anymore!

























Just kidding... See you Friday or Saturday...

[Leo G]

I'll just sell them to someone else. Deposits are not refundable, sorry.

See you then.

[naptownCr]

I don't know how anyone else feels, but this thread and transaction between forum members makes being here worthwhile. This is what it is truly about, one craftsman helping out another.:2thumbsup::2thumbsup:

[Leo G]

Can I be the official cabinet maker for the people of the construction forums. That would just be dandy.

[naptownCr]

Can I be the official cabinet maker for the people of the construction forums. That would just be dandy.Whoever wins the steel cage no holds barred match between you and Gus

[ChrWright]

Damn Leo.

I have to say, I didn't care for the design from seeing the pics Splinter posted. But those doors you made look F-ing gorgeous.

Hat's off.

[Leo G]

They have really grown on me. I am kind of partial to them, they have a strange characteristic to them.

That's what happens when you let a cabinet maker make doors.

[Leo G]

Can I be the official cabinet maker for the people of the construction forums. That would just be dandy.Whoever winsw the steel cage no holds barred match between you and Gus

Haven't seen Gus around here at all lately. And - He doesn't make doors, he outsources them. He'd probably have to get me to make them and then take all the credit :mad2:

[topcoat]

Great work, Leo. The shaper is the one tool in any woodshop that gives me the creeps.

[Leo G]

A shaper is a pretty safe tool. Especially when used with a power feeder. Now when I was freehanding the tops with a rub bearing, that is when bad stuff can happen. A 4" cutter spinning around at 10,000 RPM can do some serious damage it it goes a muck.

This was an easy cut and the cutter was new, so it was very sharp. So it cut like butter. I have done raised panels with a 5" panel cutter running open like that. You should hear that thing howl at 10,000 RPM.

[topcoat]

A shaper is a pretty safe tool. Especially when used with a power feeder. Now when I was freehanding the tops with a rub bearing, that is when bad stuff can happen. A 4" cutter spinning around at 10,000 RPM can do some serious damage it it goes a muck.

This was an easy cut and the cutter was new, so it was very sharp. So it cut like butter. I have done raised panels with a 5" panel cutter running open like that. You should hear that thing howl at 10,000 RPM.

I'm sure. Like a motorcycle getting its cylinders ripped out at 60 mph.

Great stuff. I love to see a good shop project. I really respect the balance of production and craftsmanship that goes into shop work. Thanks for sharing.

[Leo G]

I'm sure. Like a motorcycle getting its cylinders ripped out at 60 mph.

Great stuff. I love to see a good shop project. I really respect the balance of production and craftsmanship that goes into shop work. Thanks for sharing.

Ya, but that would be in 1st gear.;)

[Splinter]

I don't know how anyone else feels, but this thread and transaction between forum members makes being here worthwhile. This is what it is truly about, one craftsman helping out another.

Awwww, now I'm just gonna have to give ol' Leo a big bear hug when I see him.... :love:


I met a tile guy on a forum years back, and I still use him when I get too busy. Watching someones responses on the forums gives an insight to their work ethic, knowledge of the trade, and general attitude. It's often better than calling someone out of the phone book...

If only Ron the Plumber was closer, I'd use him on every project... :rolleyes3: :rolleyes3:

[Leo G]

Awwww, now I'm just gonna have to give ol' Leo a big bear hug when I see him.... :love:




I'm not into the ghey stuff. Keep yer paws off of me.:mad2:

[Leo G]

Alex just took off from my shop. He hates me. He told me that all the space I have and only one guy working in there "I hate you" :laugh4:

Seems like a rather likable guy. Friendly with a go get'm attitude. I was in the spray room when he showed up and he just pounded on the door. We chatted for a while before getting down to business. WTH, he just drowe 3 hours to get here.

Best of all he liked the doors and I got paid !! Now all I gotta do is get in the door with that kitchen.........http://fototime.com/0C25CEB2EB5DEC6/orig.gif

He has proof that he was here too. And I'm sure he'll post it when he gets time. Warner should be able to guess what it is....

[ChrWright]

Sounds like a real life Remodel Crazy love connection. :grin:

Are those doors to be painted or stained?

[Leo G]

They will be stained and finished by spraying. It's all up to him now.

[Splinter]

I hate you.

Naw, Leo's a good guy. I'm just real jealous of his Kremlin setup.

The doors are getting a reasonably dark stain... Kind of a shame, but the homeowner loves the color. There's about 800 lf of custom mouldings going into this house as well.. All get sprayed with pre-cat lacquer in the shop. Minwax and Poly just dont cut it.

[Leo G]

My Spray room is as big as his shop Hahahahahahaaaaaaa

[Splinter]

you're lucky this isnt in the boardroom....

[Leo G]

Is now..............