Wood properties

[PA Woodbutcher]

My weakness is and has always been finish, as in stains, lacquers, paints etc.

I have been using mostly oak and maple so far and just happened to catch Leo's observation of birch and that it chips easy. I know cherry can be bad with splitting because of the tight grain. Hard maple doesn't take a stain real well and is tear out prone. Others? If I make a list can I get everyone's observations/learnings with the different ones? Would like to stay with basics as that is what most would be working with.

Red oak - Super easy to work with and easy on the tools. Plywoods to match are readily available. Takes a stain evenly. If oils are used it will darken and really bring out the red in the material. Lacquer's on the other hand will darken it a little, but not near as much

White oak- Board selection is pretty important as light to dark in color is more prevalent than in red oak. I've found white oak boards that are almost as dark as walnut. I've only built one real piece out of white oak and that was a toybox...it is in my album

Cherry - Never worked with cherry much, but is a beautiful wood. To stain it seems a shame. The color before adding finish is totally different than after

Birch - Many various colors seem to come out with a clear top coat. I've done a couple of floors with birch that came out beautiful, but that is the extent of my experience. Plywood is also readily available.

Ash - Most of them seem to be dying off, so may or may not be useful information in the future. This wood also seems to darken a lot with a top coat. I did an oak hardwood floor last year that they used ash as base, and casing...looked ok when they were done with the exception they used a poly, which darkened it more than a lacquer would have.

Hard Maple - beautiful wood, but light in color and doesn't seem to take a stain or oils very well. As I said seems to be especially hard on blades and equipment.

Soft Maple - Also light in color, but takes a stain much better. Full of character, well some call it character, I call them mineral stains and knots.

Feel free to add any woods that you have experience with! I know with some of you this may add to the list exponentially!

[Silvertree]

I did some furniture with Purple Heart and found out it was a bitch to sand. Also did a few face nails thinking I would be able to make them disappear. It took about 5 years for the filler and wood to match. I made wood putty with the saw dust and some Elmers.

[PA Woodbutcher]

I made wood putty with the saw dust and some Elmers.

I use that trick frequently with maple. With oak, retail putty seems to match pretty well. I take it purple heart is harder than the hinges of hell:laugh3:. Was it pretty split prone?

[Splinter]

Ipe- hard on blades, splinters a lot when routering an edge or dovetailing, sawdust is very fine and tough on the lungs. wear a mask.

Have some old oak and cant tell if it's red or white? Rip off a sliver and try to blow through it. If you can, it's red. If you cant, it's white.

Leo uses a prestain with clear stain base on hard maple, I like to use a washcoat. Cut the sealer down to roughly 5%-8% solids using thinner and spray on a wet coat. Follow up with a scotchbrite after it dries. It will seal the really thirsty pores of the wood.

Alder is not readily available in lengths longer than 11-12'. The trees dont get that big.

"Fuming" with ammonia brings out some cool colors in certain types of wood. (cherry, oak)

[Bodger]

Ipe- hard on blades, splinters a lot when routering an edge or dovetailing, sawdust is very fine and tough on the lungs. wear a mask.

Have some old oak and cant tell if it's red or white? Rip off a sliver and try to blow through it. If you can, it's red. If you cant, it's white.

Leo uses a prestain with clear stain base on hard maple, I like to use a washcoat. Cut the sealer down to roughly 5%-8% solids using thinner and spray on a wet coat. Follow up with a scotchbrite after it dries. It will seal the really thirsty pores of the wood.

Alder is not readily available in lengths longer than 11-12'. The trees dont get that big.

"Fuming" with ammonia brings out some cool colors in certain types of wood. (cherry, oak)


I'll second that on the Ipe. I've done a number of decks with it and a rainscreen treatment a while back. It's a biatch on blades and my eyes burned all day too.

I used to make castanets for flamenco dancers. Used all exotics. Gabon ebony, grenadillo, zebrawood. Lots of hand shaping and sanding. That dust will really get to you if you don't use protective gear.

I saw an episode of New Yankee Workshop once where Norm built a kitchen island out of mesquite wood. Looked like it was pretty hard wood with lots of crazed grain patterns.

That "fuming" technique works well, I did it once on a nightstand. Stinks like hell though.

[Leo G]

I find Cherry to be one of the more pleasurable woods to work with. It is easy on the tools mills well with a bit of brittleness and smells great when cut. It is a bit hard to stain as it is one of the blotchy woods.

Mahogany is another nice wood to work with. Most of the times the wood is pretty stable but you can find some pretty wild pcs. You cut them and they go crazy. It is a dream to stain and takes stain nice and even, no blotching at all.

Sapelle' is a wood I would classify in the Mahogany family. It is usually cut quartersawn and has a ribbon effect that shimmers when you put a finish on it. It also stains well. It is a pretty hard wood, brittle but not to chippy. Because the grain is very wild it tends to have a lot of smaller ripout when it goes through a planer. It is one of those woods you should use a wide belt sander on. It can be had in flatsawn also. It has a very nice cathedral grain that looks similar to mahogany but more pronounced, it is harder to come by and you usually have to specify it. Then you would be lucky to get a 50-50 mix of flat and ribbon.

Spanish Cedar. I make a lot of exterior doors out of this. It has an open grain and is pretty lightweight. It mills nice but you can find some pcs that will mill with a fuzzy edge. You can sand it out but it can be a pain. It stains nice and paints well as long as you don't mind the open grain. It is a great outdoor wood. The dust tastes horrible and the oils in the wood stick to everything. You taste it for days. I have nick named this wood puke wood. It has caused me to gag so bad that I come close to tossing my cookies. It is one of the few woods I will wear a mask with. And I usually like to wear a respirator instead of just a dust mask. It is that bad.

[PA Woodbutcher]

"fuming"? Can someone splain please...Never even heard of it, but I've been hanging out in all the wrong places anyways.:grin:

Anything sprayed on is lost on me. I've been using the brush on lacquer with pretty good results. I am pretty attentive to keeping things fairly "clean" before application. Big thing is dust control as I don't have a dust system. Have always felt that it wouldn't make me money. Now I'm spending a lot of time in planning and layout before finishing. With a dust system I think I could actually save time.:smash: I'm learning slow but sure.

[Silvertree]

Purple heart is prone to splitting, and fasteners have a little troyble staying straight.

If I had the tools I would not nail, but I predrilled and nailed with no bad results.

[naptownCr]

Fuming works realy well on white oak
Basically you make a tent over the piece and seal it with an open pan of ammonia inside. th will turn the wood a brown to black depending on how long you fume it for. The ammonia reacts with the wood the same way animal urine on a hardwood floor will stain it.

[Leo G]

......... Big thing is dust control as I don't have a dust system. Have always felt that it wouldn't make me money. Now I'm spending a lot of time in planning and layout before finishing. With a dust system I think I could actually save time.:smash: I'm learning slow but sure.

Having a dust collector will not make you money. But it will save you money and time. I use to think the same thing when I have a single bag collector that I would shuffle around to the various machines that I was using. What ended up happening is that I would get lazy and soon enough the machine would be stuffed with chips. Then I would have to take the time to clean it out and dispose of it. What I have found by having the DC connected to each and every machine is that I use it. It keeps the place relatively clean and dust free and the machines rarely need to have personal attention to take care of a chip problem. What I find is that what use to take me a day to make a mess on the floor now takes me about two weeks. You still need an air handler to scrub the air. The fine dust from the tablesaw blade will get out unless you have an over the machine collection system.

I find it was worth the investment and takes care of most of the dust problems. Keep it in mind.

[PA Woodbutcher]

didn't want to steal (I think it was Orsons's post on the built in's), but Leo mentioned you gotta know what your doing to stain and finish birch. Are you using a conditioner? Never used anything, but stain and the basics. Any secrets to using them?

[Leo G]

Stain base used as conditioner is easy. You just apply it like stain, let it dry for at least 20 minutes and then stain like normal. For more blotchy woods you may have to let it dry for an hour.

A washcoat is a sealer or topcoat thinned out so that it contains 5% solids. Most contain between 25-45% solids in their unthinned versions. Spray them on, sand lightly and then apply stain.

Both methods will reduce stain penetration and work best with light to medium stains. If you want darker stains you may have to use toning and shading along with the conditioning.

[Daren]

I don't like to stain either. The only time I really do is on an antique resto. If I had to pick just one favorite to work with it would be walnut, it machines easy/glues easy/is great looking. I personally dislike oak, red or white. Some of my other favorites that are not as commercially available but since I made my own lumber and all I get to use them are (in no particular order)

Honeylocust: hard-durable (inside), lovely coloring.
Osage orange: again hard-durable inside or out, bright yellow-turns burnt orange when exposed to UV
Mulberry: a cousin of osage, not nearly as hard but still very rot resistant outside. Also turns burnt orange/red.
Black locust: not even related to honeylocust, just similar names. Hard heavy very durable outside, nice tight-straight grain.
Cherry: Hey gotta love it
Aromatic cedar: works very easy, smells great, looks great...can really soak up the finish though.
1/4 sawn sycamore: pretty, but soft for a hardwood and difficult to stain without blotching, but you don't need to stain it anyway. Flat sawn sycamore is just plain and unattractive IMO. It does machine and glue easy though.

I thought I would throw some links in (sorry if they are already here, I'm new) I will add more later if anyone finds these useful.
Wood hardness (http://www.sizes.com/units/janka.htm)
Wood properties (http://ohioline.osu.edu/for-fact/0009.html) (some of those are not west of the Rockies)

[Daren]

Having said walnut is my favorite wood...I still have a slight allergic reaction to it (acne from sanding) There are many woods that can effect people in different ways. Maybe this link will be helpful. Toxic woods list (http://www.mimf.com/archives/toxic.htm)

[Derek Stevens]

I love working with walnut, it's one of my favorites. I did so many kitchens ( over 100) out of cherry I have sort of tired of it. It is pretty, and I would only oil it, never stain it. I am doing a bunch of carving in mahogany, though I find it pulpy. I have made a bunch of wooden masonic rings out of Ipe, brazilian cherry, wenge, cedar of lebanon and purple heart. They all have their issues, but are beautiful when oil finished. I have done a number of furniture pieces out of quarter sawn white oak, and while I don't enjoy carving it much, it can be pretty.
As for spanish cedar.. Thanks to Jason, I have been able to work with a material that is the wooden equivalent of having a crusty gym sock used as toilet paper by a dysenteric hobo, stuffed with rancid clam bellies, battery acid and gorgonzola cheese stuffed down your throat.

[PA Woodbutcher]

I have a set of cabinets to match...Well I'm doing the base cabinets now and the uppers probably next year/year after. The cabinets now are a particle board and have a walnut laminate.....Unfortunately it is not on a walnut budget.

Was originally going to do them in a soft maple and stain, but could do them in birch as the plywood will all be birch, if I can stain to match.

[Leo G]

As for spanish cedar.. Thanks to Jason, I have been able to work with a material that is the wooden equivalent of having a crusty gym sock used as toilet paper by a dysenteric hobo, stuffed with rancid clam bellies, battery acid and gorgonzola cheese stuffed down your throat.

Isn't that stuff great.http://fototime.com/53958B8C0F1F65F/orig.gif

[Derek Stevens]

Well, it does mill beautifully. Leo, when you do doors out of it, do you laminate any of the stile or rails or go with solid? The movement I saw in the stock while I was in NY makes me ask.

[Leo G]

When I'm cutting it I can tell if it is going to be a trouble maker or not. Most of it mills pretty straight and stays that way. Then you get a few pc that defy straightening. As you are running them across the jointer to face them they are changing shape. I have found Mahogany pcs that do the same thing. Sometimes the internal stresses of the wood can't be reckoned with. I won't use African Mahogany because of that very reason. I bought some 5/4 stock and I had a hard time getting a true 3/4" board out of it because of unruly movement. Then I bought some more months later and had the same problem. It is now crossed of the list of woods that I use.

I don't face laminate my door stock. If I did I would use three layers. Odd layers are more stable than even layers.

[Derek Stevens]

I ask as in the past I have found that even just profiling a stick can be that magic amount off to allow tweekage. I havn't spent that much time with Sp. Cedar to really know it's moods.

[Leo G]

Whenever you make a solid frame door there is always going to be a slight bend to the wood. It is what it is. You can use the weatherstripping to your advantage and it will hid the slight bend. If you take your two stiles and put them together face to face and the gap between them is less than 3/32, as far as I am concerned you are ready to go. Bigger than that and you may have issues. The other thing I have learned is that you put the stick with the bend on the hinge side and that will hold it straight. You need the straighter stick on the latch side. You just can't throw a door together willy nilly. There is actually thinking involved :mad2:

[Derek Stevens]

Agreed. I have made doors, just never with Sp. Cedar.... and besides, I like doing things willy-nilly... it's how I roll..

[PA Woodbutcher]

I have a set of cabinets to match...Well I'm doing the base cabinets now and the uppers probably next year/year after. The cabinets now are a particle board and have a walnut laminate.....Unfortunately it is not on a walnut budget.

Was originally going to do them in a soft maple and stain, but could do them in birch as the plywood will all be birch, if I can stain to match.

Ended up going with the birch. Cut some scraps of birch and birch plywood and had my way with the can of stain and conditioner. Will be using a conditioner on them before a dark walnut stain. Without the conditioner the stain brought out black in some of the grains....looked horrible. With the conditioner and a heavy coat of stain, it came out looking pretty good and matched the doors on the uppers real nice.

[Leo G]

That black is gilsonite (http://www.zieglerchemical.com/gilsonit.htm). A black green hydrocarbon. It usually goes in to crevasses and grain. Looks nice on Oak as it highlights the grain. As far as I am concerned it look like crap on everything else because of the way it interacts with the grain of the wood.

I have a permanent note to my guy who makes my custom stains - NO GILSONITE - unless required. It has solved a lot of my problems.