Designer's Challenge: How Hard Do You Push For What You Think is Right?

[ChrWright]

"But this is what I really want."

If you're a designer, I'm guessing that's a phrase you've heard from clients more than a time or two. As a contractor, it's something I've struggled with many times over the years and have seen my design partners struggle with it as well.

How hard do you fight and where do you draw the line when a client wants something you know will yield a result that's less than what they could have had. Even harder, how hard do you push back when what they want isn't architecturally right for the house--or is so completely odd it will hurt the house at resale?

Perhaps that's not the best way to put it. Better said: How much effort do you put into trying to convince them your way is better for them, the house, resale, etc. etc. etc?

I'm a pleasure giver. I want my clients to love what I build for them and get everything they want out of the renovation. The challenge comes when what they want isn't as good as the result they 'could' have. Yes, it's a subjective judgement--and the customer service cliche is that "the client is always right." But as professionals...as experts... we're being hired for our skill, knowledge, and experience. Don't we have a responsibility to stick up for our ideas?

If you've been in the industry for more than ten minutes, then you know there are all manner of creatures in the client forest. Some are shy, some outspoken. Some will trust you implicitly, and some have strong opinions they'll hold back from sharing until the very last minute.

I've often thought that to be a good designer or contractor, you must be equal parts diplomat, psychologist, therapist, and motivational speaker. (Oh, and it helps to be good at designing and building tihngs too :grin:).

This is a discussion that was brought up in Paul's conference session at the Remodeling Show. As part of his presentation, he showed a kitchen of mine that was a complete train wreck from a design/layout perspective. It was an example of "not hot" design--but oddly enough it photographed well and the client adored it. The discussion was 'heated' at times, among the contractors and designers in attendance, over how much we should care about the finished product as long as the client is happy. As a contractor, I don't always get to choose or have input on the things I build--that's life.

Sometimes it's a hard pill to swallow. When my name's on a project--I want it to be as perfect as possible in every way. On this one I was lucky the client loved it. I had little control over the design, so I was really just along for the ride. There were issues along the way, but fortunately we were able to overcome them as best we could and everyone ended up happy. But the risk we all run when the client's driving the bus down the wrong road is that they won't be happy with the destination, and will blame us for not giving them better advice along the way.

For me, this is not a CYA issue. I don't whip out a disclaimer every time a client chooses something I don't agree with. I pick my battles carefully, and do my best to give the best advice I can based on what I think is right. I'm curious to hear other perspectives on the subject, and how the rest of you have dealt with this on your own projects.

[bconley]

The risk we all run when the client's driving the bus down the wrong road is that they wont' be happy with the destination and will blame us for not giving them better advice along the way.

That is exactly what I tell them when they are making decisions that don't make sense functionally or otherwise.

Bring up the issue and say;

I want you to be totally happy with the project, this is how and why this decision is not the best.

You hired me as the expert and I would'nt be doing my job if I didn't tell you why this is wrong.

This works for me but it is a fine line when it comes to objective decisions that is why I like working with designers they deal with most of these issues.

[angus242]

After starting my business, my very first potential customer was a doctor that had just purchased a $3 mil house that needed to be totally remodeled. The kitchen I looked at had all the potential in the world. It was 45' x 20' with the eat-in area cantilevered about 4' off the back of the home into the woods. That wall was floor to ceiling windows (10' ceiling) overlooking a stream running through the yard. The entire kitchen needed to be updated. But the clown wanted me to put new hardware on the cabinets, install Uba Tuba granite and refinish the hardwood floor in just the kitchen (which was throughout the entire main floor). When I asked about the transition between the kitchen and the adjoining room, he said not to worry about it, the lip wouldn't be that big of a deal to step around. There was a beautiful 6' x 6' skylight over the island that he wanted me to add an exhaust hood within. :rolleyes3: Oh and after all of that, he was going to purchase $33k in new appliances.

It killed me but I walked away from this job. I couldn't be involved in the systematic destruction he was about to perform on such a house.

That's the approach I take. I refuse to be apart of anyone "ruining" their home.

Now when it comes to budget vs function, that's a different story. When a client's budget won't allow the redesign of a room to much better functionality but only to enhance the current layout, I'll be game to that. You can have a home that its value won't realistically allow a proper budget to remodel in a manner that makes it "hot". In that scenario, I feel an aesthetic upgrade is within reason. One example is I deal with stock cabinets that don't always allow me to symmetrically align built-in appliances. It kills me to look at it but the HOs are still very happy.

Overall, I think that's what makes you the professional. You are the one to make the decision between form, function and budget. You have the ability to walk away from a job that you know won't turn out satisfactorily for all involved.

[AndyGump]

Too many times have I had to deal with a client that just "wants what they want" so I acquiesce to what they want. They are the ones that have to live in the house after all.
I always tell them (tactfully, I hope) what my particular objections are and if they accept my explanation or advice, great, if not, oh well, no big deal.

I certainly understand wanting to have what your name is on to be perfect as possible but I prefer to have it as perfect as practicable.

One of my present clients insist that the new front porch roof (gable) that I have about 12 inches below the existing main gable 90 deg. to it have the main roof line taper down to meet the lower roof. They are afraid that birds will nest under the main roof area right there. Yeah, it might happen, I think, just enjoy it if any do, but I can't say that. It is just a matter of continue on and do the best I can.

Andy.

[LivinTheDream]

For me it depends on just how disfunctional or unappealing I think the choice in question is, and how well I think the client understands the issue (and so won't be surprised and disappointed once things are finished). When function is involved, I express a stronger opinion. In aesthetics, I am more likely than not to give my opinion, explain my concern & then go along with the client's druthers. (That's where the saying "There go the portfolio pictures!" comes in handy sometimes.) Of course I would rather have everything with my name on it looking "just so", but in reality there are a lot of varying opinions with design merit, and many ways to do the same project "right". In the end, even if I get to completely satisfy my own sense of design, there will always be others who don't like the style. And sometimes something I never would have pictured working has turned out looking smashing.

On the other hand, I lost a recent project because I just couldn't convince the client that her royal blue & mauve carpet had to go if she truly wanted the sophisticated African themed office she envisioned for her husband. When she said it had to stay because of budget, I just kept brainstorming and came up with five possible ways to work around it (ie cover it up) instead. I just couldn't imagine that she actually believed it could work with chocolates and oranges and animal prints. She laughed and labeled me stubborn, and withdrew the project by email a few days later. So, I guess I do have my limits!

[macatawacab]

Ran into this in the 70's for the first time. HO (a doc trying to please his daughter) wanted a bedroom painted black 4 walls, trim black, ceiling white. "Are you sure? Never done this before and it will take 3 coats to be a true black?"

They loved it.

Second big time was in a kitchen redo. Design was wrong by industry standards. Pointed that out but HO said "we have lived in this house for 8 years and this is how we want this done". I got the job because I was the only contractor that would do it their way.

Right now I serve the owners. Will not compromise Code or life safety. If they want the walls black, who am I to complain.

My business exists to solve problems, fix things, and generally give people what they want.

[ChrWright]

Ran into this in the 70's for the first time. HO (a doc trying to please his daughter) wanted a bedroom painted black 4 walls, trim black, ceiling white. "Are you sure? Never done this before and it will take 3 coats to be a true black?"

They loved it.

Second big time was in a kitchen redo. Design was wrong by industry standards. Pointed that out but HO said "we have lived in this house for 8 years and this is how we want this done". I got the job because I was the only contractor that would do it their way.

Right now I serve the owners. Will not compromise Code or life safety. If they want the walls black, who am I to complain.

My business exists to solve problems, fix things, and generally give people what they want.


Well said. I had an old carpenter who worked for me who used to say, "If they like it, I love it."

I doubt anyone in this market would flat out turn a project down solely on the basis of "artistic integrity".

[ChrWright]

After starting my business, my very first potential customer was a doctor that had just purchased a $3 mil house that needed to be totally remodeled. The kitchen I looked at had all the potential in the world. It was 45' x 20' with the eat-in area cantilevered about 4' off the back of the home into the woods. That wall was floor to ceiling windows (10' ceiling) overlooking a stream running through the yard. The entire kitchen needed to be updated. But the clown wanted me to put new hardware on the cabinets, install Uba Tuba granite and refinish the hardwood floor in just the kitchen (which was throughout the entire main floor). When I asked about the transition between the kitchen and the adjoining room, he said not to worry about it, the lip wouldn't be that big of a deal to step around. There was a beautiful 6' x 6' skylight over the island that he wanted me to add an exhaust hood within. :rolleyes3: Oh and after all of that, he was going to purchase $33k in new appliances.

It killed me but I walked away from this job. I couldn't be involved in the systematic destruction he was about to perform on such a house...


I probably would have passed on that one as well. Sometimes requests like that tell you that you're just not going to be a good fit to work together. Different priorities.

[orson]

I think this is a great topic of discussion Chris.

I did a kitchen remodel in the spring, semi-stock cabinets and when you entered the kitchen there was a short wall on your right 19 inches deep that I wanted to extend and put a 24 inch deep pantry next to.

HO did not want to extend it and also balked at the expense of doing a custom 18 inch deep pantry.

We ended up with a design using a 12 inch deep pantry. Months later when I was installing the kitchen she almost cried when she saw her shallow pantry cabinet.

After the project was finished she told me although she loves her new kitchen she wishes they would have upgraded to a full custom kitchen.

[DMDz]

Its simple and to the point. You will loose the job and feel better later when the next one says YES I agree -- and you use that job CAUSE IT NOW LOOKS PERFECT to make many many more future jobs come to fruition.

My New stance this year, or at least until I am faced with that question, LOL.

Dave