Enough Clamps?

[Leo G]

Do you think I have enough clamps on this cabinet? It's a corner upper cabinet. One side is exposed and I mitered the corner, the other is going to be attached to another cabinet and didn't need to be miters, thank gawd.

http://fototime.com/48CD193DC3564F1/orig.jpg

[ChrWright]

I dunno.... I see some open space there. Could've fit 1 or 2 more...

[J F]

holy crap...I haven't seen that much pressure since my 5rd grade spelling bee.

...by the way is "aisle" and not "isle" when you're walking through it :censored:

[nEighter]

holy crap...I haven't seen that much pressure since trying not to get a boner dancing with Peggy Nogood back in Jr. High :surrender:

:laugh3:


Chris I was thinkin the same thing!

[J F]

http://i677.photobucket.com/albums/vv135/Jay123_bucket/Smileys/sidewaysmileys.gif

hell, back then I was tryin' to hide the boner


what up nate?

[nEighter]

LMAO!! Thought that was right! :laugh3: not a whole hell of a lot man :D

[Allrounder]

Like I keep telling my wife, you can NEVER have too many clamps.

[J F]

holy crap...I haven't seen that much pressure since my 5rd grade spelling bee.

...by the way is "aisle" and not "isle" when you're walking through it :censored:

I meant "it's"...damn, 5th grade failures keep haunting me :smash:

[neolitic]

I don't think she'll escape tonite Leo.

[naptownCr]

I see space for at least a dozen more
There cannot be too many clamps!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

[Leo G]

I don't think she'll escape tonite Leo.

She's been out of clamps for 12 hours now. :2thumbsup:

[PA Woodbutcher]

Looks kinda like a clamp rack sitting there.:grin:

I have a definite need for more clamps. I only have a half a dozen of the "hold this for a second" clamps another dozen screw type light clamps, a dozen 3' 3/4" pony clamps and a few 6 footers.

[Leo G]

You need more clamps. The squeeze clamps shown, I have more of those than you have clamps. I think I have 6-6", 20-12", 4-18" and 18-24". I have about 42-3' pony clamps, 16-32", 8-5', 4-7', 2-10'. I have 3-8" Jorgenson's and a few spring and "C" clamps.


Still need more.

[PA Woodbutcher]

You need more clamps.

This I know. I have a friend that will be closing up shop and moving to warmer places. He is a 40 year finish carpenter with a furniture and cabinet shop. He has probably as many clamps as you do. When he closes up shop he will be selling the majority of his tools. I like the idea of buying used pony clamps...I'm frugal too.:laugh3:

[Winchester]

I've actually never seen anyone clamp a clamp before!

[Leo G]

I clamp clamps on a lot of occasions. When I am edgebanding with my iron I use a jorgenson clamp to hold the plywood at a 90º angle to the work surface. Then I clamp the jorgenson to the work surface.

What you are seeing me do here is apply a bit of leverage to the face frame so the two miters ar forced together. The clamping force from straight down tends to pull the miters apart, so these clamps counteract that force and push them back together. I did this all with a dry fit to figure out my clamping strategy (it's a war). So I wouldn't have to figure it out as the glue was setting up. The same with the top set of clamps. I have one set of clamps pulling the FF down onto the plywood, but this distorts the plywood because it is flexible. So I have another set of clamps to pull the FF the other way. I balance the pressures out so the FF lands where I want it to and then the glue sets up and it stays.

I hate angle cabinets.

[Leo G]

Glued up 3 cabinets today. The first one was simple, just a single box. The next two were a bit complex. Had to do dry fits and adjust. Really didn't understand why with the tolerances I adhere to, but never the less it needed to be done. Realistically I assembled 7 cabinets, and got 4 sanded and ready for finishing.

http://fototime.com/EE0E448C86DA839/orig.jpg

http://fototime.com/3848297F1CF8790/orig.jpg

[Splinter]

www.bowclamp.com

http://www.bowclamp.com/images/190x240_home_promo.jpg

[naptownCr]

www.bowclamp.com

http://www.bowclamp.com/images/190x240_home_promo.jpg

Can I have an AMEN!

[PA Woodbutcher]

www.bowclamp.com

http://www.bowclamp.com/images/190x240_home_promo.jpg

Yeah, but I can go to blowes and get an 8' for less than $3:laugh3:

I use bowed boards for distributing pressure all the time. I have some what used to be rough cut, air dried oak 2x4s that work great.

[nEighter]

bowclamp is pretty cool

[Leo G]

Good idea if your joints are self aligning. But I think it would be difficult to work with when you have no rabbets or biscuits or other alignment built into the joint.

But I already make thes things for cabinet ends, they are called cauls. Just a pc of plywood with a curve sanded on one edge. Been using them for years to glue up the box portion of the cabinet.

[Leo G]

Here is a picture of a caul on a cabinet. You can see the outside edge is curved. The curve is actually on the inside edge pushing on the cabinet but has been transferred there because the clamping pressure has straightened the curved edge up against a straight clamping surface.

http://fototime.com/16709E383B573EB/orig.jpg

[Splinter]

That's all the bowclamp is.... Their motto is "Bowclamp- good caul"

[Derek Stevens]

Leo, you sweep up your shop b4 you take pictures, don't you... and no, there is no way to ever have too many clamps

[naptownCr]

Band clamps and a rubber hammer work well also IMHO

[Leo G]

Leo, you sweep up your shop b4 you take pictures, don't you... and no, there is no way to ever have too many clamps

Who the hell has time to sweep? It's really amazing that I got pictures.:mad2:

[WarnerConstInc.]

I just use warped boards, what else are they good for.

[kornerking]

Leo, Have you considered going to a rail and stile joint for attaching your face frame to your cabinets. It gives instant alignment, 1 1/2 " of glue surface per joint. It also reduces the faceframe reveal too about 3/8 for a much cleaner look. On top of all that it is a lot quicker.
I can provide pictures

[Leo G]

Put the pics up anyway. Unlikely I will switch over, but I'd still like to see it.

That would mean running plywood through a shaper and with all that glue and crap it kills the cutters pretty quick. Sounds more of a higher production facilities assy style then a custom builder.

Show the joint to if you could.

Thanks.

[kornerking]

Leo, this picture shows it being used on a 45deg corner. Regarding wearing out cutters. We do a kitchen a week. all exposed ends use this joint as well as all 45deg. The cutter needs to be sharpened every 6 months or so. It's a lot cheaper to resharpen than to haul out the clamps. The cutter is set up on a 1 1/2 horse delta from 1993.

Are we high volume? I don't think so. Each kitchen is custom built with very few stock sizes. It is not slapped together joinery. I just can't afford to be inefficient with my labor. In todays market if it doesn't add value to the product a better way needs to be used. Just a thought.

[Leo G]

Interesting.

I see you use a castle pocket holer.

[kornerking]

All of the joints on this uses the rail and stile joint. Notice on corner cabinet how there isn't the wide transition from wood faceframe to plywood side.

Yes I use the castle pocketholer. New in 1994. Wish I had a counter to know how many times it ran.

[Craig Feuerzeig]

Good idea if your joints are self aligning. But I think it would be difficult to work with when you have no rabbets or biscuits or other alignment built into the joint.

But I already make thes things for cabinet ends, they are called cauls. Just a pc of plywood with a curve sanded on one edge. Been using them for years to glue up the box portion of the cabinet.


Leo, your joints don't need to self-align any more than with conventional clamping. Basically the same... you start with light pressure in one spot (the middle) makeyour adjustments and clamp away, keeping things aligned as you move down the line. In fact I think you'll find that when the glue moves from the center out... your work-piece will do less skating around, than when it is forced to bunch-up in pockets.

And I like your home-made version. I've made too many to count, all imperfect at best. That's how I got here. Very use-full for certain situations. But I notice that you don't use them when gluing those face-frames, for example.

And that's really the whole point. The more accurately you can make them, the more use-full they become. Consider edge-banding alone. Inustry standard is hot-melt, or contact cement (I used to own a Holzer 1404). Or those face frames ( a lot of guys would nail it, including Norm,and he's on TV :laugh3:) Wouldn't you rather glue it and clamp it? If you could?

[Leo G]

I don't use cauls when doing FF's because it kills the opportunity to do the alignment as you described. I use a flat caul so I can go down the line while gluing and make the adjustments.

[Craig Feuerzeig]

I'm not really sure why you think that Leo. Adjustments are done exactly the same way in both cases... as you go down the line. The only difference is, the additional trips back to the clamp rack for more clamps.

Another often overlooked, added benefit... those scraps you're using for cauls. You keep them hanging around because they might be use-full later. Or you go hunting through the garbage looking for the right one.

There's a tool for that now. Hangs on a nail right next to your clamps. Instead of looking for the right piece of scrap, and 5 or 6 clamps. You grab 2 clamps and a Bowclamp. A lot faster than setting 5 or 6 clamps (times 4 sides that's 20 or 30 clamps). And don't forget, time is of the essence...your glue's kicking.

Even when using pocket screws (I love my Kreg jig) I still set the clamp at the location of each screw before screwing. With Bowclamps you can clamp the entire side and then set all of your screws in one shot.

[Leo G]

I never worry about flat cauls. I always have plenty of them for gluing up. They are made from various pcs of plywood that are left over from jobs that are less than 2 5/8", which is the smallest plywood part I make on a cabinet. I make my cauls 1 7/8". Don't really have to worry about trips to the clamp rack, it is usually within 2' of the project I am currently gluing up and is on wheels so I move it around as I clamp up.

Thanks for the ideas.

[kornerking]

it's a great day.......:)

[Craig Feuerzeig]

Can I have an AMEN!

bowclamp is pretty cool


Well... you win some and you lose some. :grin:

And for what it's worth Leo... I counted 17 clamps that you could have freed up, on that one upper cabinet alone (while getting better coverage) if you had a set of Bowclamps in your shop. :smash:

But thanks for looking anyway.:)

[Leo G]

No way to use a caul on an angle cabinet like that. It needs a balanced clamping structure otherwise the joint slides.

Enlighten me.

[kornerking]

Craig,
You may have the worlds greatest idea, BUT, you will find it goes better on this site with a little less self promotion. Just an idea.

Pete

[Craig Feuerzeig]

Sorry Leo I was referring to the other upper cabinets you posted pictures of. I'm unable to link to them.

And sorry Pete, I know the deal. In my defense, my post was a lot funnier before you edited yours.:o That and I'm from New Jersey... we don't have good filters for that kinda thing. :mad2:

Just trying to help clear up any misconceptions. Of which there are always many.

[kornerking]

SEE I 'm in trouble again. By the way welcome to Rc.:2thumbsup: