Web based software

[Eieio]

Web based software I believe is going to pick up a lot of momentum soon.

All of you estimating project management, scheduling software etc all accessible online as long as you have internet access.

I have been using web based software for about 8 months now and will never turn back. I keep a tablet PC everywhere I go to access information anytime I want.

Anyone running a web based software system or program?

Are you afraid to run a web based software?

[George Z]

Zoho was great, still is.
Used Zoho creator to do our online application,
we still use their CRM but their e-mail was not as good,
so we want back to Google Apps for your Domain.
Collaborating on documents has been amazing.
Quickbooks online anyone?

[Elms]

The Web is the direction for software and services in this industry and all others. Few Web solutions are currently available, but it is only a matter of time before all vendors will be offering their solutions via the Web.

I find the industry to be mixed in its desire of software via the Web versus Windows/Mac desktop solutions. As a software company and vendor, the Web offers a better platform to service and support our customers. We have plans on supporting remodeling solutions in both environments when our Web solution comes available later this year.

To George's point "Quickbooks Online" - I am not sure if I am personally ready to do my accounting online or operate my business with internet banking. Some businesses may feel the same with their sales, leads, and project data.

Do you feel comfortable and secure leaving your remodeling business data and/or accounting information on a remote server accessible via the internet?

[Eieio]

I am doing it already all my software is web based and will never turn back. Some of the other guys my be hesitant. But I have increase productivity 30% by being web based.

I take my tablet PC everywhere and have access to every thing I need. I think most will come around and they embrace it in time.

[SLS-Construction]

The security of the site using web based software is one concern I have, the strength of the company (what happens if they go belly up), and do they have backups if something goes wrong.

One other issue is you want all your wireless traffic to be encrypted, which slows things down.

My biggest issue at the moment - I have so many area's I go to with no cell phone coverage, that it wouldn't work for me yet.

[Blue]

My next step is to unbolt the passenger chair in my f-150 and build/boltdown a custom desk for the laptop,printer,file cabinet, etc.

Been wanting to do it for awhile. Does this sound crazy? Will I be tempted to take breaks too often on the job and go to RC Forum if I do this?

Why don't they have something you can buy like this already for a few model trucks?

[Eieio]

My next step is to unbolt the passenger chair in my f-150 and build/boltdown a custom desk for the laptop,printer,file cabinet, etc.

Been wanting to do it for awhile. Does this sound crazy? Will I be tempted to take breaks too often on the job and go to RC Forum if I do this?

Why don't they have something you can buy like this already for a few model trucks?

They do. I had it in my ford truck 3 years ago. My Toyota came equipt with everything I need so I don't have to pull out my seat

[MOTB]

I believe that security should be a bigger concern when the information itself is valuable on the open market. But to be realistic, a hacker will not really benefit from stealing the records of a contractor. First of all, the market for the information is so small that it simply is not worth the effort. Other than that, basic security measures such as encryption and passwords with database security and firewalls should suffice. My previous company was internet software for Private Equity and security was taken to a whole new level. Thankfully, this higher level of security is not required in the contracting industry, and most contractors would not desire to pay the true price for such an ultra-secure environment.
Brian Javeline
President & Co-founder
MyOnlineToolbox.com
a browser-based Internet solution for contractors

[Len]

Security is always an issue. You have this information on Your computer already... most people don't lock down their PC one bit, or make a proper backup, yet their worried about someone else secruing their data. Ironic.

Take the case of Francis Ford Coppola, stolen computers from his location. Sure he had a backup, where, right next to the main computer, so that was stolen too.

http://www.imdb.com/video/cbs/vi3956278041/

A $5/mo online backup plan and free drive encryption software and he would have had no worrries.

[Silvertree]

I took the free trial for a ride on my Mac. Only problem is for the free MOTB you have to have Internet Explorer, I don't.

So no review coming at this time. My PC has IE, but my kids are always in my office downloading Itunes or chatting. It'll be a while to get to using it.

I wanted to try it for my 203K consulting business which is perfect (I really don't know yet) for MOTB, I think. So I was going to run my 203K, and then shamelessly promote myself to all the local realtors and bankers.

When I do, I will post the review for that application on Remodel Crazy.
I plan on calling my reviews

Software trials by Hammer, I was actually called Hammer before MC Hammer was called Hammer. It was a sign of respect (I think).

[MOTB]

This is correct, MyOnlineToolbox is only compatible with IE 7 at the moment. Here is my explanation, which is also posted on our company website.

Our application currently supports Internet Explorer 7, but more options will become available soon based on customer requests. 85.3% of the last 47,000 visitors to our site (ending August 6, 2009) where using IE. 11.7% use Firefox and 1.9% use Safari. Chrome, Opera & Mozilla then follow. Many Firefox visitors have indicated that they also use IE, and it is for this reason why we supported IE first. It's our belief that many contractors, having the availability of the default browser installed on a low end computer they purchase puts the real number above 90%, too high a number to ignore.

the breakdown of IE versions from visitors to our site is:
Version 7 is 87.54%
Version 6 is 8.99%
Version 8 is 3.45%

So approximately 75% of all visitors use the defualt browser version that we currently support, and another extra good few percentage points for those who do not mind using IE 7 if that is the only option.

MyOnlineToolbox is a technology firm that can obviously appreciate the various advantanges of each browser. However, based on our competitive availability (free subscription and a low cost paid-for subscription), we tend to gravitate what the majority requires first, second, etc.

That said, we will be making our platform Firefox compatible as well as IE 8 compatible and will also throw in additional browser announcements at the appropriate time.

Brian

[Eieio]

Brian

What is the obstacle to make the software compatible with an browser? Obviously money is one issue.

Is there a lot that goes into making the changes??

[MOTB]

What is the obstacle to make the software compatible with an browser? Obviously money is one issue. Is there a lot that goes into making the changes??

Obstacles predominantly include cosmetics, security and a few other minor issues. In my previous business (investmentcafe.com) that is a financial product, security issues are an overwhelming critical component of all browser decisions. In the case of MyOnlineToolbox, it is predominantly cosmetic issues and how a person "may" interact with certain browser features.

And once you decide to add another browser, you then have to immediately pay attention to it as it moves along. So in my case I have to deal with IE8 in addition to IE7, whether I like it or not. Once I move to FireFox I then have to automatically include those new version issues so I go from 2 concerns to 4 concerns. Adding yet another browser then make it 6 concerns. You get the point.

There are some that will say that a good developer will make his system completely compatible with all browsers. That is just about impossible. In my case, we have some components of the solution that simply must be adjusted for full compatibility with other browsers (since the initial design was focused more on IE7 and simplicity for contractors to use and share data). One example to reference is
webbuildinginfo.com/2009/06/05/about-cross-browser-compatibility/

The truth is, tailoring a site for cross browser compatibility is a pain. "Compliancy" by W3C standards by no means indicates compatibility with all browsers. A reference can be found at
tamingthebeast.net/articles/crossbrowercompatibility.htm

I could have spent more time on browser compatibility for product launch and then wouldn't have an easy-to-start AND easy to collaborate product. I could have spent more time on browser compatibility and skipping our feature that retains the users state within the system when the Internet disconnects. We decided for what was right for the majority. Sorry, I have to do some selling in order to elaborate.

At the end of the day, it is where my direct priorities and promises have been to the existing customers, not to the potential ones. I have exactly 17 items on my plate that existing members are aware of (all cosmetic and one a major new feature) and can only go so fast and am very sensitive to how we spend our money and effort.

Like I said, going to FireFox (or even IE8 today) may bring me new customers, and I emphasize "may" ... yet delivering on the 17 items will make existing customers more efficient.

We choose our battles carefully and stick with it .... hey, this isn't the US Government just looking to win your vote and then do something different :surrender:

Brian

PS. But we will eventually be FireFox compatible. I am in agreement that it will help a little for our target market, just not as much based on current market size.

[Winchester]

One thing I don't understand is, if something works in IE7, but not IE8, is it not Microsoft's problem to correct IE8? I would think all browsers should be backwards compatible to at least 1 version behind them like 8->7?

I was considering looking at something like MOTB just now, thanks for saving me the hassle. I currently use Firefox only. :2thumbsup:

[Handyman Service]

Paul (Hammer),

MC actually lives here in my town. Funny story, he and my son are friends. Pretty cool guy, my son is 21 and into music, used to work at 7-11 and Hammer would stop in and BS with him. If there were people there, he would hang out and wait for them to leave, then go in and BS.

[MOTB]

One thing I don't understand is, if something works in IE7, but not IE8, is it not Microsoft's problem to correct IE8? I would think all browsers should be backwards compatible to at least 1 version behind them like 8->7?

Unfortunately Microsoft, as well as every other browser company, will make it the software developer's problem. I wish it was that simple, but that is not how the industry works.

Microsoft does provide a feature that webmasters can opt in to put on web page in order to force the web pages to be handled in IE7 Standards Mode. But it is not straight forward.

Since IE8 is so new, and we are not under pressure to go to IE8 (as mentioned above), we are just buying time while MS will eventually release an update and then we will be in 2010 to see where the economy is as well as the demand itself. A more technical understanding can be found at

mydigitallife.info/2009/02/26/force-ie8-to-load-and-display-websites-in-ie7-compatibility-view-mode/

or

forums.tolranet.com/blog.php?b=16

Brian

[MOTB]

I was considering looking at something like MOTB just now, thanks for saving me the hassle. I currently use Firefox only.

From a marketing perspective, are you saying that you will only look at a solution that is Firefox compatible? Are you saying you will not use any system until this is the case? If there was no ideal system on Firefox, would you use an ideal system with IE for just that solution? Thanks for any quidance. Brian

[Winchester]

From a marketing perspective, are you saying that you will only look at a solution that is Firefox compatible? Are you saying you will not use any system until this is the case? If there was no ideal system on Firefox, would you use an ideal system with IE for just that solution? Thanks for any quidance. Brian
If it were something absolutely amazing, and would completely simplify my contracting life, I would use IE to access it if I had to.

If I went to a site with online software and there was something that looked like an interesting possibility and then found out I had to switch browsers to try it, I wouldn't bother (even if it were free) unless it was referred to me by other contractors who had very high opinions of it.

[Eieio]

If it were something absolutely amazing, and would completely simplify my contracting life, I would use IE to access it if I had to.

If I went to a site with online software and there was something that looked like an interesting possibility and then found out I had to switch browsers to try it, I wouldn't bother (even if it were free) unless it was referred to me by other contractors who had very high opinions of it.


I hold the exact sentiments.

I think most Men/contractors think the same way.

Change is hard, complacency is easy.

It takes something short of a miracle to exact change from us

[MOTB]

I think most Men/contractors think the same way. Change is hard, complacency is easy. You are right and that is why I have been marketing towards the crowd that is new to technology in general. Our view on change is focused on the people who have Danica Patrick on a calendar as their scheduling system, all their estimates either as copies in Word files or on paper all over the place, and their open invoices to track in an elementary school composition book. We are seeing a gravitation towards the interest of getting it all organized so change to us is defined as manual to computerized.
Brian
Perhaps I may soon drag and drop pictures of Danica to limit the culture shock since today I only have a basic calendar with no pictures. I am honest when exposing my software limitations :laugh3:

[Silvertree]

I think from a businessman's point of view your doing what's best.

In regards to staying with Firefox, with the powerful computers we use at work today you could have a dozen browsers and partition your drive to have a dedicated area for business purposes.

I use a partitioned drive now on my Mac because of an expensive design program I own, it is slow and a hassle. My next computer will be set up a little different, but MOTB, if doing what I need only means getting IE 7 I figure no big deal to switch.

I mean I went from pagers to cell phones and corded to cordless. You should have heard the old timers when portable compressors and cordless tools came out.

[Jeff Knutson]

I love the software industry. The software industry is always trying to reinvent itself and come up with new names for the same old stuff that has been around for years. The reason is so they can either charge more and or so they can try to distinguish themselves apart from their competitors as new technology.

The new term “Web based” is basically taking a software application and putting it on someone else's server so you or anyone can access it remotely over the Internet. This idea is not new.

The funny thing is all software can be accessed remotely over the Internet. If you want to access any software remotely over the internet it doesn’t matter if it is on your server, my server, a laptop or a server over in India. The fact is as long as a computer is connected to the Internet the software application on that computer can be accessed from anywhere via the Internet. Another name for “Web based” is "Software for Rent". You're basically renting the software and the space on someone’s computer.

There is nothing wrong with renting any software application on someone else’s server and accessing it remotely. We do it with the software we develop and distribute because many smaller companies like to make monthly payments.

We also have many builders and contractors who make monthly payments by leasing their software and hardware. The only difference with a monthly lease is that they own it at the end of the lease, which builds more value to their companies net worth.

[MOTB]

The new term “Web based” is basically taking a software application and putting it on someone else's server so you or anyone can access it remotely over the Internet. All software can be accessed remotely over the Internet. Jeff, thanks for the post but I do want to clarify something from my side (software development) of the table. Yes, all software can be accessed over the Internet, but depending on how it is developed, there is more than one way for that to happen. For example, if you developed the software by yourself and it is designed for a Windows based environment on your own servers, then you will most likely need a firewall at your server location and some form of connection product to dial into the server. Or perhaps you may need a Citrix product depending on the product and how data goes from Point A to Point B. Or hopefully, the product was designed for the Internet and the Browser that requires nothing other than an Internet connection. Of course I am prejudiced to the latter since that is what I do with MyOnlineToolbox, but it is sometimes too easy for outdated packages to say they are software-as-a-service based or Internet based, when in fact, like you express in your post that they are just saying what the market wants to hear. Thanks for the original post. I am glad you understand the topic. Brian

[MOTB]

Almost all my previous conversations had to do with contractors using software (as a web based application) for the basics of their business (i.e. estimating, work orders, invoicing, scheduling), but another thing to consider is how you interact with your customers during the process of getting a job with one or more estimates, scheduling updates once a job is begun and invoicing. Most people look at this as a form of using perhaps emails with maybe document attachments for the estimate or invoice. After about 1/2 year of development MyOnlineToolbox.com has now entered testing for the contractor-to-customer collaboration platform. While some customers may not accept this form of communication (perhaps mostly older), there will be others who are used to forums, LinkedIn and Facebook as sharing working on a common topic ... and in our case it is a job. I think this feature will be a great hit and welcome you signing up (if you are not already a member) to be the first to give it a whirl once we release the live version sometime in March or April the latest. All the best,
Brian

[Blue]

Sounds inticing. Can you use some paragraphs? That took so long to read I finally gave up 1/2 way through.

[afkama]

I was actually called Hammer before MC Hammer was called Hammer. It was a sign of respect (I think).

maybe you just heard it wrong, maybe they were calling you 'hammered.'

[afkama]

there will be others who are used to forums, LinkedIn and Facebook as sharing working on a common topic ... and in our case it is a job. I think this feature will be a great hit and welcome you signing up (if you are not already a member) to be the first to give it a whirl once we release the live version sometime in March or April the latest. All the best,
Brian

What we use now is software very much like what RC runs on. Each job has it's own password protected 'sub forum'. All the stakeholders can log on.

We use a separate one to do our in house collaboration.

Free open source software. Hosted on my web site account.
It works exceptionally well for us.

What would be the value for me in using your system instead?

[MOTB]

It is how you wish to connect to others. Best answer is by way of example. Say you are GC who bids on a job and also wishes to work with subcontractors on the same platform as the one you wish to collaborate with your customer. But keep in mind that the subcontractors are looking to run their own business independent of your business system. In the case of the GC to subcontractor relationships, the GC is the customer of the sub. Using MyOnlineToolbox, the subcontractors can collaborate with the GC on this one job and the subcontractors can use the MyOnlineToolbox platform to run their other jobs that are not related to the GC. It is kind of like having your own web-based scheduling system that connects with others only when you are connected to them.

Similar to this forum, it will not work if everyone is not allowed to view it and decide when to join and decide when to reply ... but the difference is that with MyOnlineToolbox the originator controls what others see and what they can update.

Hope this clarifies.
Brian

[afkama]

It is how you wish to connect to others. Best answer is by way of example. Say you are GC who bids on a job and also wishes to work with subcontractors on the same platform as the one you wish to collaborate with your customer. But keep in mind that the subcontractors are looking to run their own business independent of your business system. In the case of the GC to subcontractor relationships, the GC is the customer of the sub. Using MyOnlineToolbox, the subcontractors can collaborate with the GC on this one job and the subcontractors can use the MyOnlineToolbox platform to run their other jobs that are not related to the GC. It is kind of like having your own web-based scheduling system that connects with others only when you are connected to them.

Similar to this forum, it will not work if everyone is not allowed to view it and decide when to join and decide when to reply ... but the difference is that with MyOnlineToolbox the originator controls what others see and what they can update.

Hope this clarifies.
Brian

Thanks for the clarification Brian. I think I get the concept.
I don't want to give the impression that I'm slamming your product- I'm not.
But here is my feed back for what it's worth:

My impression is that it would have more value for a sub than a GC.
The system we use, which is Forum software, allows us complete control over who sees what. Just like the Board Room, if someone doesn't have permission, they don't even see it.
We have the option of nested forums, so we can impose a structure on our job files.
We have the ability to assign forms to a particular forum so we can specify how the data will be entered. i.e. The daily job logs are entered using a standard form.
Date:
Subs & employees on site:
etc.

If a client or sub leaves a message the software will shoot off an email notification, similar to the way thread subscriptions work here.
Recent updates are listed.
Photos and documents are stored with the relevant jobs.
One of the things I like most about it is that all of our information is in one place as opposed to being spread out over the document server, email server, etc.

Forum software was written so that even a noob could use it. One of the problems I've had with construction collaboration software is that the overhead required too much time and the learning curve was too steep.

I want something that is intuitive, simple, fast, extensible, scalable, comprehensive, and easily accessible.

The software we use now is all of that besides being free to own, cheap to host and doesn't require any of the stakeholders to subscribe to a service.

I don't see the advantage to it yet, but I'm still open.

Edit: It also works on any browser. I refuse to use I.E. for a lot of reasons.