U.S. Solar Market To Double In Next Year

[Century Man]

This article (http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/24498/?a=f) is good news for Naptown.

[framer55]

The part that pisses me off is right at the top, government incentives.

Why am I paying someone else to get equipment to save money? Dumb!

Sorry Nap!

[naptownCr]

The part that pisses me off is right at the top, government incentives.

Why am I paying someone else to get equipment to save money? Dumb!

Sorry Nap!

Don't bitch, take advantage of the programs available. Eventually the govt will have to pay for this and will most likely be higher energy taxes and costs. Those who did not take advantage will be the ones who are really screwed.

[framer55]

Don't bitch, take advantage of the programs available. Eventually the govt will have to pay for this and will most likely be higher energy taxes and costs. Those who did not take advantage will be the ones who are really screwed.

Maybe you missed in civics classes but the gov is us. Therefore I am paying for people to get soler panels. It is a dummb federal program. The free market should be allowed to work without intervention.

An example of this is the flat panel TV's. Without gov intervention the prices have come down. If solor panels are the answer to energy problems the prices will tumble to the point that they make some sense. Right now, the prices are proped up with gov programs. Doesn't make sense, sorry.

[naptownCr]

Maybe you missed in civics classes but the gov is us. Therefore I am paying for people to get soler panels. It is a dummb federal program. The free market should be allowed to work without intervention.

An example of this is the flat panel TV's. Without gov intervention the prices have come down. If solor panels are the answer to energy problems the prices will tumble to the point that they make some sense. Right now, the prices are proped up with gov programs. Doesn't make sense, sorry.

The prices have tumbled about 40% in the past year.
I understand that we are the Government. However the Government (Us) has also led us down the garden path for too many years with our demands for very cheap fuel prices. No matter which side of the climate change thing you are on there is one ablolute truth and that is that there is only a finite amount of fossil fuel on this rock and we need to stimulate the growth of renewables now. We can't afford to wait for coal and oil to run out before we do something about it.

[framer55]

The prices have tumbled about 40% in the past year.
I understand that we are the Government. However the Government (Us) has also led us down the garden path for too many years with our demands for very cheap fuel prices. No matter which side of the climate change thing you are on there is one ablolute truth and that is that there is only a finite amount of fossil fuel on this rock and we need to stimulate the growth of renewables now. We can't afford to wait for coal and oil to run out before we do something about it.



One problem with your premise, there may or may not be a finite source of oil. Those that believe that oil comes from dinaseaurs believe as you do.

The problem, there is theories that how that this is not correct. Try looking up the Russian beliefs. They were the first ones, I believe to shoot your theory down.


I have no problem with solor panels, just a real problem when the gov intervines in the economy and supports one section at the dtermint of another. If solor is the way to go, let the market decide. It is wrong to try to artificially intervene.

This is as far as I will go, will be happy to discuss this in other venues, just this may not be the best place.

Dave

[afkama]

Normally I shy away from controversy.

Tax incentives have been used since even before America was founded to promote the public good.

We've decided that a high rate of home ownership is good for neighborhoods so we have a deduction for mortgage interest. That one is far more costly than the incentives for solar, and if we abolished that one a lot of us would be working in the fast food industry.

We've decided that promoting strong families is good for society so we allow taxpayers to have deductions for having kids.

Contractors can now carry their losses back for 5 years instead of 3. Why should I subsidize someone who doesn't know how to run their business? But I don't hear any debate over that.

We've decided that investment is good for the economy so we keep the capital gains rate lower than employment taxes. Most of us take advantage of that by taking our income in the form of dividends instead of wages. Even Warren Buffet said it's ridiculous that his tax rate is lower than his secretary's.

The question is- is it in the public good to promote clean renewable energy and reduce our ties to foreign oil, while at the same time giving a shot in the arm to the construction industry?

I vote yes.

[naptownCr]

One problem with your premise, there may or may not be a finite source of oil. Those that believe that oil comes from dinaseaurs believe as you do.

The problem, there is theories that how that this is not correct. Try looking up the Russian beliefs. They were the first ones, I believe to shoot your theory down.


I have no problem with solor panels, just a real problem when the gov intervines in the economy and supports one section at the dtermint of another. If solor is the way to go, let the market decide. It is wrong to try to artificially intervene.

This is as far as I will go, will be happy to discuss this in other venues, just this may not be the best place.

Dave

My understanding of fossil fuels is basically correct and I am only referring to fossil fuels coal ,oil, natural gas It took the earth millions of years to produce from decaying plant matter not dinosaurs.

I would be happy to read the Russian research on this topic if you would be so kind as to provide a link.

Although it is currently possible to produce bio fuels from corn soy beans etc these processes have their own drawbacks. Most notably in a reduction of acearage for food production. Thereby increasing demands and costs for foodstuffs.

The attractive part of solar is that enough solar energy strikes the earth every hour to provide enough energy for the entire planet for a year.

The other attractive part of small solar installations is that the electricity is produced generally where it is used and mostly during peak useage hours.


As Akfama said these programs are done for the public good. Almost like the public school system and think how much that cost you per year.

[framer55]

Please tell me the public good from recieving tax rebates for solar panels?

As far as the rest is concerned, if you let the market decide which alternative to oil is out there, the US won't have to spend dwindling federal resources to prop up an industry that is based on a product that has been availlable since the 70's without significant breakthroughs in the product to make it self sustaining woiithout the gov proping up the industry.

I am not picking on your industry, it is just the belief that gov is needed to make thinks better. I don't understand why my tax money is being used to rpop up your industry.

As far as tax breaks for buying a house, that is something that effects a vast number of Americans, rather than the small number that is able to take advantage of breaks given to your industry.

I will look up the Russian view on oil shortly.

[Eieio]

Please tell me the public good from recieving tax rebates for solar panels?

As far as the rest is concerned, if you let the market decide which alternative to oil is out there, the US won't have to spend dwindling federal resources to prop up an industry that is based on a product that has been availlable since the 70's without significant breakthroughs in the product to make it self sustaining woiithout the gov proping up the industry.

I am not picking on your industry, it is just the belief that gov is needed to make thinks better. I don't understand why my tax money is being used to rpop up your industry.

As far as tax breaks for buying a house, that is something that effects a vast number of Americans, rather than the small number that is able to take advantage of breaks given to your industry.

I will look up the Russian view on oil shortly.


Name a major U.S. industry that has not been propped up by the US Gov?

[framer55]

"Black Gold, Strangle Hold by Jerome R. Corsi, Ph.D. and Craig R. Smith. In this book, the authors maintained the same theory. If it is true that oil is formed from the hydrocarbons released from the Earth’s molten magna core, then we may very well have an endless supply of oil. It becomes just a technological challenge to drill deep enough to reach it"

This is the theory, it took less than 10 seconds on yahoo search to find. It is a book the references the work by Russian geologists. This theory seems to have validity as the deaper we search for oil, the more we seem to find.

The theory that we are running out is old news that has been passed by new theries that seem to have validity.

[naptownCr]

We could take the asme view on many government programs such as farm subsidies, Medical research Many of the things the government does affect only a small portion of the populace. that does not mean we should cut all programs that affect a small part of the population. Our government has made larger mistakes than this.

[afkama]

rather than the small number that is able to take advantage of breaks given to your industry.


I think that is the point of the incentives though- to give more homeowners access to the technology. This isn't really any different than the incentives offered years ago when we were promoting energy efficiencies in home building for the first time. It did make a difference in the way we build- and for the better.

[neolitic]

The part that pisses me off is right at the top, government incentives.

Why am I paying someone else to get equipment to save money? Dumb!

Sorry Nap!

That is a one time investment.
Would you rather continue to
pay POCO to build, maintain, and
fuel new plant in perpetuity?

[framer55]

We could take the asme view on many government programs such as farm subsidies, Medical research Many of the things the government does affect only a small portion of the populace. that does not mean we should cut all programs that affect a small part of the population. Our government has made larger mistakes than this.

Yes we could and I have. Most of these subsidies had good intent, like your industries in the 70's because the state of science was we were running out of oil. This is where the throry of peak oil came frome. Today it is a different matter. We have new theories that actually make more sense.

Here is the link to the paper I was referring to earlier.

I hope these subsidies disappear along with other programs that our gov has that have produced very little long term benefit.

I am having a hard time keeping the politics out of this discussion, but remember, at the current rate of borrowing by the feds, we will be paying over 1 trillion in interest alone by 2017. Cuts have to be made and made soon or we will really be in a complete mess.

[Mike(VA)]

Wait a minute. Afkama said:

We've decided that a high rate of home ownership is good for neighborhoods so we have a deduction for mortgage interest. That one is far more costly than the incentives for solar, and if we abolished that one a lot of us would be working in the fast food industry.

How does a deduction for mortgage interest become far more costly than other incentives? How does a deduction that WE can take become costly? Its money we spent in the first place and the feds are 'allowing' us to keep from paying taxes on some of what we spend. Where is the costly part? Less money to the feds? Too bad. What are the incentives for solar? Not a deduction I don't think so its not the same thing. As for all of us working in the fast food industry if we can't deduct mortgage interest, come on.

Last comment, the deduction for mortgage interest isn't in place as an incentive to buy houses, its to placate us for paying so much in taxes for everything else.

[neolitic]

Yes we could and I have. Most of these subsidies had good intent, like your industries in the 70's because the state of science was we were running out of oil. This is where the throry of peak oil came frome. Today it is a different matter. We have new theories that actually make more sense.

Here is the link to the paper I was referring to earlier.

I hope these subsidies disappear along with other programs that our gov has that have produced very little long term benefit.

I am having a hard time keeping the politics out of this discussion, but remember, at the current rate of borrowing by the feds, we will be paying over 1 trillion in interest alone by 2017. Cuts have to be made and made soon or we will really be in a complete mess.

Government subsidies built the transcontiental
railroad that made this a truly continental
nation.
The interstate highway system that has
enabled 60 years of unprecedented grouwth.
The space program that gave you this computer,
your modern phone system, broadcast system,
medical technology......
There were people who wanted to stop
eachand every one of these things because
they were unable to see the immediate
benefit to themselves.

What possible good is a baby?
Strangle it in the crib, and save yourself
a lot of money and trouble. http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/neoliticman/smiliethumbsup.gif

[afkama]

Wait a minute. Afkama said:


How does a deduction for mortgage interest become far more costly than other incentives? How does a deduction that WE can take become costly? Its money we spent in the first place and the feds are 'allowing' us to keep from paying taxes on some of what we spend. Where is the costly part? Less money to the feds? Too bad. What are the incentives for solar? Not a deduction I don't think so its not the same thing. As for all of us working in the fast food industry if we can't deduct mortgage interest, come on.

Actually it is a combination of tax deductions and tax credits- depending on your location.

http://dsireusa.org/incentives/incentive.cfm?Incentive_Code=US37F&re=1&ee=1

The homeowners mortgage deduction, in my opinion provides a pool of capital that homeowners can use to finance the projects they do with us. The market for remodeling services would be far different without it. The deduction now currently is estimated to account for $100 Billion a year savings for home owners. In my book that is a lot of money.

Last comment, the deduction for mortgage interest isn't in place as an incentive to buy houses, its to placate us for paying so much in taxes for everything else.

I won't debate the implied purpose of the deduction- that would be a political discussion. The stated purpose is to promote home ownership- which is why it is only available to owner occupied residences.

[afkama]

I'm surprised you guys aren't promoting this. This has been a huge boost to us. We had a lot of clients who wanted to install solar but the costs were too high. The incentives have made a big difference in that. In California anyway, this is turning into a bandwagon.

And before you get started...
Don't insult:
My mother
my wife
my dog

Or the Great State of California.

[naptownCr]

Last comment, the deduction for mortgage interest isn't in place as an incentive to buy houses, its to placate us for paying so much in taxes for everything else.

It very much is an incentive to buy houses.
Like the solar credits it creates jobs. And because of it has made ownership affordable and viable for many more people. Without those deductions there would be far fewer people able to own their own homes.

[naptownCr]

Actually it is a combination of tax deductions and tax credits- depending on your location.

http://dsireusa.org/incentives/incentive.cfm?Incentive_Code=US37F&re=1&ee=1

The homeowners mortgage deduction, in my opinion provides a pool of capital that homeowners can use to finance the projects they do with us. The market for remodeling services would be far different without it. The deduction now currently is estimated to account for $100 Billion a year savings for home owners. In my book that is a lot of money.



I won't debate the implied purpose of the deduction- that would be a political discussion. The stated purpose is to promote home ownership- which is why it is only available to owner occupied residences.

Not necessarily true. An investor can purchase a home and deduct the interest etc from the rent proceeds. And you can have a primary home and vacation home and deduct the interest as long as the aggregate of the mortgage Principle does not exceed one million.

[afkama]

Not necessarily true. An investor can purchase a home and deduct the interest etc from the rent proceeds. And you can have a primary home and vacation home and deduct the interest as long as the aggregate of the mortgage Principle does not exceed one million.

That's why I hang out here. I learn stuff.

In any case the deduction accounts for a lot of the remodeling activity IMHO.

[naptownCr]

That's why I hang out here. I learn stuff.

In any case the deduction accounts for a lot of the remodeling activity IMHO.

Well it did when the banks were actually lending money.
Now not so much ( in best borat voice)

[afkama]

Well it did when the banks were actually lending money.
Now not so much ( in best borat voice)

Feel free to insult my bank all you want.