How are you handling testing for Lead?

[nEighter]

I just contacted the company locally to get the RRP class.. haven't heard from them yet (left voicemail) and in calling different places I called a place that does the actual testing. They said it would be $175 for the exterior and the interior would be another $125 when done together. That is $300.00 for the full house, which will probably be different if it is a huge house.. but I don't know if size is a factor.

What he told me is that most walls and siding on homes have no lead, or no apparent lead once tested. He said it is mostly the window sills and doors and casings that have the lead. He told me that it was because those areas were the areas that needed the higher performance paint (leaded) back in the day.

Now this may all be no new news to you guys who have taken the class, but I haven't YET.. so it was news to me.

How are you handling the testing? My thoughts would be to tell the customers to do their own testing via this company or another testing company prior to me stepping foot on site. I don't want alot of time (my money without promise of the job) to be wasted doing this for someone else to come in and snag the work.

What you doing?

[Century Man]

I charge for testing.

[nEighter]

Again I haven't taken the class yet so I am not sure how this will all play out.

[y.painting]

After you take the class, you'll see that it's much easier to just presume lead and not test (especially for painting-only projects).

[nEighter]

Thanks Y. I will understand more in about 2 weeks.

[SLS-Construction]

As posted in a recent blog (http://blog.sls-construction.com/?p=865) posting:

... With all that being said, while we can and will perform tests for lead on your property if requested, we will not work on a property where lead has been proven to exist.

If no tests are completed, we will follow the RRP’s Safe Work Practices as required and complete the job as professionally as many of you have come to expect. If the test does come back negative, we will perform the work using our normal dust free work practices that are used on all properties. If a test does come back positive (even if it falls below the EPA’s de minimus level), we are going to refer you to a lead abatement contractor. Once the abatement contractor has completed their work and everything tests clean, we will gladly come in and complete the job.

[Blue]

So, operating like that Sean, it would appear to me that you would not need to be certified. What am I missing, because this is what I plan on doing when I get calls on these old homes instead of renewing my cert in July.

Edit: OK, I see where you are giving them the option of requesting inspection, whereas I am demanding it.

[WarnerConstInc.]

i am going to have the ho's pee in a cup and then I can send that off.

[nEighter]

Man EVERYONE is saying this exact same thing. Feck. Too much liability. Man. Why get certified then?

[Blue]

Man EVERYONE is saying this exact same thing. Feck. Too much liability. Man. Why get certified then?
I have been certified for 5 years but have decided to let it expire in July and not renew.

My decision to force HO to test beforehand will save me any/all exposure to this liability. To me its a personal/financial decision. i have no political feelings about it whatsoever.

[Eieio]

No testing.. We will presume it is there and do our work according to the EPA RRP Guidelines

[WarnerConstInc.]

I'm just going to assume they should have to tear the house down and start over.

This whole idea of lead testing or not is wacko.

[nEighter]

I have been certified for 5 years but have decided to let it expire in July and not renew.

My decision to force HO to test beforehand will save me any/all exposure to this liability. To me its a personal/financial decision. i have no political feelings about it whatsoever.

Okay so you are thinking the way I was above.. have a company come out prior to you going to the site. That is what I was thinking also.

No testing.. We will presume it is there and do our work according to the EPA RRP Guidelines

Okay but how do you shield yourself from the liability if you don't know it is there.. but afterward someone tests and it shows positive on their test?

God what a nightmare this is.

[Eieio]

Liability from what??

I assume its there and perform my work accordingly..

If it is there before I came in it will be there in the house after I leave.. unless its a full gut job..

So what liability should I be worried about?

[nEighter]

Oh so what you are saying is by performing your work in the RRP certed way you are not on the hook for any lead that may be on site, that it was already there, so you don't have to worry about it. I am thinking about the possible contamination that was done prior to you being there, that could be pushed off on you since you were "the last contractor there".. type deal.

[JasonW]

I just lick the walls. If it tastes like the paint chips I ate as a toddler then I presume it's lead based.

[Bodger]

I have been certified for 5 years but have decided to let it expire in July and not renew.

My decision to force HO to test beforehand will save me any/all exposure to this liability. To me its a personal/financial decision. i have no political feelings about it whatsoever.

That's exactly what I intend to do. It might cost me a job here and there, but I'm not touching this crap, not spending $1500 on certs and firm certs and HEPA vacs, etc.
I'm doing the same thing with lead that I have always done with asbestos. Get it tested, get it abated, (all transacted by the HO not me), and move on with the job.

It's the homeowner's lead, and theirs to deal with and pay for. I don't want that liability hanging over my head and I don't want to screw around with moon suits and taped visqueen, only to find that some kid can't read because he ate dirt at the neighbor's property and I was the last one to stir up lead dust at his house.

[Bodger]

Liability from what??

I assume its there and perform my work accordingly..

If it is there before I came in it will be there in the house after I leave.. unless its a full gut job..

So what liability should I be worried about?


Being the last one in there to stir that s**t up?

I don't know, I haven't fully understood this CF from the beginning. But from what I heard in that insurance webinar the other night, there is liability here even if you perform your work accordingly and document everything.
Especially in a nanny state full of treehuggers and litigious lawyers like I'm in out here.

[Eieio]

For Sean, Bodger and Blue.

This is remodeling, even if an abatement company comes in and do the initial demo, removal etc. What happens when the plumber needs to come in and demo a wall were a pipe was broken or needs to be relocated after the fact??

My argument also is even if an abatement team still does selective areas. You still have to be certified to work in a house that has been partially demoed if its not a full gut..

[Bodger]

I'm just going to assume they should have to tear the house down and start over.



:laugh3::laugh3::laugh3:

[Bodger]

For Sean, Bodger and Blue.

This is remodeling, even if an abatement company comes in and do the initial demo, removal etc. What happens when the plumber needs to come in and demo a wall were a pipe was broken or needs to be relocated after the fact??

My argument also is even if an abatement team still does selective areas. You still have to be certified to work in a house that has been partially demoed if its not a full gut..


Well f**k me, that's the part I never understood completely. So no point in testing, assume it's there and do the RRP thing. Only way to avoid it is never touch a house that was built before ' 78.

Were it not for that, hey, change order, I didn't know we were doing anything to THAT wall, so call the master abaters back.
No good eh?
Sheeeet.

[Eieio]

Well f**k me, that's the part I never understood completely. So no point in testing, assume it's there and do the RRP thing. Only way to avoid it is never touch a house that was built before ' 78.

Were it not for that, hey, change order, I didn't know we were doing anything to THAT wall, so call the master abaters back.
No good eh?
Sheeeet.

I am just assuming.. It says pre 78 with lead. So if its not a full gut, there is still lead present right?? Where is SLS with answers when you need him.. :grin:

[nEighter]

I have to call a guy back tonight.. trying to decide what to tell him, I can get to it possibly in 45 days if the cert comes in.. or get your lead test and call me back. Thinking of the latter..

Here is the deal. This law just pushed all us into the same line of work (post 78). That means this lil fishbowl is gunna start essploding with sharks and amigos.. even more now than before.

I want to figure out a SMART way to go about getting this business still, having it streamlined as much as possible, and as cost effective as possible with the least amount of time spent spinning my wheels. So how does one do that? Tell the customer to have it check prior to me being there? I think that is just good practice. That it goes on record as having lead there prior to me being there.. I practice the RRP safe guidelines.. I am in and out of there with no liability.

Is it a practice to test after you leave also? Is that another step that must be taken?

[WarnerConstInc.]

I think it will end up being a failed effort all together.

[WarnerConstInc.]

30 year old houses are just getting to the point of needing work.

that is about 25% of the houses around here, with over half of those being under 10 years old.

I guess it is time to sell off the unnecessary tool's and hit the street corners and peddle some flesh.

[JasonW]

30 year old houses are just getting to the point of needing work.

that is about 25% of the houses around here, with over half of those being under 10 years old.

I guess it is time to sell off the unnecessary tool's and hit the street corners and peddle some flesh.

75% of the Houses in Vermont were built before 1978. That's right from their lead law page.

[WarnerConstInc.]

That is what I am saying Jason.

I saw a few people working this week, sans plastic and signs.

An investor I do some things for is on the main drag working on an old house.
I know he has no clue and both his regular guys have no idea either.

I wonder if I should roll over on him?

[nEighter]

so it is do it or die.. or do something else. Cause if 97% of contractors are saying no.. then 3% are getting 75% of the work, and 97% getting 3%... I don't like those numbers.

[WarnerConstInc.]

If I start a cult do I have to conform to everything?

[nEighter]

The green cult already exists... THE GREEN PEOPLE (http://www.talkfestool.com/vb/)

[Eieio]

75% of the Houses in Vermont were built before 1978. That's right from their lead law page.

I would believe DC is that % or more.. I have never worked build before - 78 since I have been here

[Blue]

So what liability should I be worried about?

You missed the webinar. That webinar was what sealed it for me.


Basically image 300,000 starving lawyers that are drooling a shaking all over now that this rule is on the books. You are the guy they are hunting. The guy that assumes and then performs.

What happens is this. Little Becky is sucking and saliving on window sills all over the home. She has been doing this since she bagan walking.

Rory comes in to do a nice little bathroom remodel with his fancy certification in hand. Rory is good too. He has dust suckers and chrome fiddle jets sucking and blowing. He has full blown astronaut suits on and the whoole 9 yards. Rory finishes the job and heads for the liquor store.

Now, a year lady little Becky starts first grade. Everything is fine until conference time when the teacher informs Mr. and Mrs. Parents that little Becky is dumber than a box of rocks and has horrible behavior.

They have Becky tested and and her blood shows lead from all that window sill licking. They call the lawyer. Rory goes to court and finds out that his general liability insurace doesn't cover the 2million they are offering as a settlement for poisoning their child.

[nEighter]

Anyway. Just trying to figure out the best plan of attack for this.

I know you guys have talked, blogged, and webinared this to death.. I haven't always read all the discussions. I just want to figure out the best way for my customers to get their houses repaired/remodeled/painted without it costing them, and me being sued out of my DNA..

[nEighter]

When is that webinar going to be posted? Or is it already?

[Eieio]

You missed the webinar. That webinar was what sealed it for me.


Basically image 300,000 starving lawyers that are drooling a shaking all over now that this rule is on the books. You are the guy they are hunting. The guy that assumes and then performs.

What happens is this. Little Becky is sucking and saliving on window sills all over the home. She has been doing this since she bagan walking.

Rory comes in to do a nice little bathroom remodel with his fancy certification in hand. Rory is good too. He has dust suckers and chrome fiddle jets sucking and blowing. He has full blown astronaut suits on and the whoole 9 yards. Rory finishes the job and heads for the liquor store.

Now, a year lady little Becky starts first grade. Everything is fine until conference time when the teacher informs Mr. and Mrs. Parents that little Becky is dumber than a box of rocks and has horrible behavior.

They have Becky tested and and her blood shows lead from all that window sill licking. They call the lawyer. Rory goes to court and finds out that his general liability insurace doesn't cover the 2million they are offering as a settlement for poisoning their child.

That would be when I get better and my lawyer has the house test and found positive for lead.. Notices the nicks and scratches on all the trim.

Asks the parents if they got my pamphlet and why they did not remove the rest of the lead from the house..

Asks them if the kid was ever test for lead before or after the renovation after receiving the pamphlet.

Checks the kids records to see if the signs where present before I showed up.

Checks to see if the Homeowners CC records and check statements to see if they or anyone else did work in the house after I left.

Has a company come out and check the house for lead and sees that it is still everywhere in the house, even after I left..


Do you want me to go on or is this enough for you??

[Blue]

For Sean, Bodger and Blue.


My argument also is even if an abatement team still does selective areas. You still have to be certified to work in a house that has been partially demoed if its not a full gut..

Not me. I won't work in toxic homes. If it test for lead post demo,pre demo, or when I have it tested. I walk away as if it was haunted by a chainsaw wielding ghost.

[nEighter]

Depends rory.. how many GG&T's you had? :D

[Eieio]

Depends rory.. how many GG&T's you had? :D

Only one.. 2 or 3 more and I probably can come up with a better defense than Johnny Cochran

[WarnerConstInc.]

I would believe DC is that % or more.. I have never worked in a pre- 78 house since I have been here

That is bs.

[Blue]

That is bs.
Thats a typo for sure. All his stuff is over 100 years old.

[Eieio]

That is bs.

That is the truth.. Why would you think differently

[Blue]

That is the truth.. Why would you think differently

Becuase you said all your projects were built AFTER 78. I know you meant that all the houses you work on are very old and built BEFORE 78.

[Eieio]

Becuase you said all your projects were built AFTER 78. I know you meant that all the houses you work on are very old and built BEFORE 78.

That's what I meant do I need to go back and edit?

[Bodger]

I am just assuming.. It says pre 78 with lead. So if its not a full gut, there is still lead present right?? Where is SLS with answers when you need him.. :grin:


I have had asbestos abatement done in specific areas of a remodel where other asbestos remains in the house in different places that we didn't go near. I don't see the difference with this lead thing.

I can see them thinking that they can mandate that the lead present in a house be abated by a certified firm and individual, but I do not see the legality in telling me that I have to be certified just to work in a house that has been abated. That seems to me to be the same as them telling me I have to be certified even if I don't work on a home built before '78.

Of course, their argument will be that if anything other than the areas abated get disturbed, I'm supposed to know how to contain that. But then I refer back to the asbestos example on that.

[Leo G]

I would believe DC is that % or more.. I have never worked build before - 78 since I have been here

Hell, I've worked on houses that were built before 1878.

[Bodger]

That would be when I get better and my lawyer has the house test and found positive for lead.. Notices the nicks and scratches on all the trim.

Asks the parents if they got my pamphlet and why they did not remove the rest of the lead from the house..

Asks them if the kid was ever test for lead before or after the renovation after receiving the pamphlet.

Checks the kids records to see if the signs where present before I showed up.

Checks to see if the Homeowners CC records and check statements to see if they or anyone else did work in the house after I left.

Has a company come out and check the house for lead and sees that it is still everywhere in the house, even after I left..


Do you want me to go on or is this enough for you??

Nope. That's enough.
Sounds like $15,000 in legal fees and shitload of time off work to fight it though.
Not to mention if it gets publicized and people read that EIEIO has filled more short buses with retarded kids that the 8th Air Force did with Agent Orange during Operation Ranch Hand. (Well, I guess that was short sampans):laugh3:

[Bodger]

Hell, I've worked on houses that were built before 1878.


I'd like to be able to say that, but everything built in California before 1920 has fallen down already. It was all sticks and mud and straw to begin with.

[SLS-Construction]

For Sean, Bodger and Blue.

This is remodeling, even if an abatement company comes in and do the initial demo, removal etc. What happens when the plumber needs to come in and demo a wall were a pipe was broken or needs to be relocated after the fact??

My argument also is even if an abatement team still does selective areas. You still have to be certified to work in a house that has been partially demoed if its not a full gut..


Well f**k me, that's the part I never understood completely. So no point in testing, assume it's there and do the RRP thing. Only way to avoid it is never touch a house that was built before ' 78.

Were it not for that, hey, change order, I didn't know we were doing anything to THAT wall, so call the master abaters back.
No good eh?
Sheeeet.

I am just assuming.. It says pre 78 with lead. So if its not a full gut, there is still lead present right?? Where is SLS with answers when you need him.. :grin:

Never fear, I am still here... :rolleyes3:

Maybe I need to reword my policy, if you guys can't understand it - or maybe I have been reading their convoluted crap for to long...

My policy is the same as your's Rory, no testing just proceed using said RRP practices as a certified firm. Now if the HO is stupid enough to request testing - I will be glad to do it for them (charging them for that service of course).

If said testing comes back positive - well than an abatement contractor gets to clean it up & I will come back later to do the work. (In fact I would have been required to do so by State Law - if we didn't get that blocked)

So what happens if a plumber needs to punch a hole in the wall afterwords - well I am sure the HO learned their lesson by now, and if not - the same cycle will be repeated.

Sorry Bodger, all my numbers are known up front - based off the first meeting, they will either pay me for testing which will be done then before we move forward onto the design / proposal stage, or we simply move on

[Bodger]

Never fear, I am still here... :rolleyes3:

Maybe I need to reword my policy, if you guys can't understand it - or maybe I have been reading their convoluted crap for to long...

My policy is the same as your's Rory, no testing just proceed using said RRP practices as a certified firm. Now if the HO is stupid enough to request testing - I will be glad to do it for them (charging them for that service of course).

If said testing comes back positive - well than an abatement contractor gets to clean it up & I will come back later to do the work. (In fact I would have been required to do so by State Law - if we didn't get that blocked)

So what happens if a plumber needs to punch a hole in the wall afterwords - well I am sure the HO learned their lesson by now, and if not - the same cycle will be repeated.

Sorry Bodger, all my numbers are known up front - based off the first meeting, they will either pay me for testing which will be done then, or we move forward onto the design / proposal stage


Good, thanks. Is it true then that even if lead has been abated, the contractor must be certified to do the project because of the possibility that further lead paint may be disturbed?

[Eieio]

Nope. That's enough.
Sounds like $15,000 in legal fees and shitload of time off work to fight it though.
Not to mention if it gets publicized and people read that EIEIO has filled more short buses with retarded kids that the 8th Air Force did with Agent Orange during Operation Ranch Hand. (Well, I guess that was short sampans):laugh3:

Nah that's just me responding to the lawyer that calls.. After he hear's all of that he moves on to KC construction. :laugh3:

[Bodger]

Nah that's just me responding to the lawyer that calls.. After he hear's all of that he moves on to KC construction. :laugh3:


Foiled again. :mad:

[nEighter]

and you have no fear of legal repercussions from this? Not testing prior?

[nEighter]

Nah that's just me responding to the lawyer that calls.. After he hear's all of that he moves on to KC construction. :laugh3:

Don't send him out here!!! :mad:

[Eieio]

and you have no fear of legal repercussions from this? Not testing prior?


I honestly don't.. I see too many loopholes right now until we get deeper into the process.

[nEighter]

Cool. Well I will be at class on the 10th. So I know I will find out more then.

[SLS-Construction]

Good, thanks. Is it true then that even if lead has been abated, the contractor must be certified to do the project because of the possibility that further lead paint may be disturbed?

745.81 (2) Firms … (ii) On or after April 22, 2010, no firm may perform, offer, or claim to perform renovations without certification from EPA under §745.89 in target housing or child-occupied facilities, unless the renovation qualifies for one of the exceptions identified in §745.82(a)

The only valid exemption is if all componets in the renovation have been declared clean by a CLR or Lead Inspector - seeing a CLR can't test Plaster or Drywall.... :smash:

[WarnerConstInc.]

We are all kind of pissed about this, what happens when owners of pre-'78 houses find out?

Because you know for sure 99% of home owners have no idea about this, or could really care less.

[OGStilts]

Geez, for a bunch of tough contractors some of you sound like little girls. Now, if you still need your mom to hold your hand to cross the street and your afraid of the boogyman jumping out of the closet, then by all means, run and hide from this too but if not, take a deep breath, relax a little, take the freakin class and apply what you learn. It's not that big of deal and it's clear that some still don't fully understand what lead testing really means.

Everyone is making such a big deal out of this crap that they are scaring the contractors who haven't taken the class half to death. The time to bitch and moan about this is over.

I was one of them who was holding out hope that it would be stopped. Guess what, it didn't happen. There's no going back. Let's just hope we can stop this push for more government in every aspect of our lives before everything goes into the crapper.

[Silvertree]

I have just finished a 3 day demo for a kitchen. I followed the RRP rules closely, but not exactly.

In the area out of 5 other jobs in progress I was the only one with garbage bags full of debris, using a negative air machine and plastic all over.

[nEighter]

Gee OG since you put it that way...

http://www.small-potatoes.ca/images/binky-leash-photo.jpg

[WarnerConstInc.]

Did you test that pacifier for lead?

[Blue]

i may be drunk but i aint no baby OG. Well, I think I will have to crawl next bathroom trip.

[RCP]

Just curious, what precautions, if any did you take on homes with possible lead paint a year or two ago?

[Bodger]

It's not that big of deal and it's clear that some still don't fully understand what lead testing really means.



I hear you Stilts, but my biggest problem with it is the government telling me what I have to go spend money on in the middle of the worst downturn I have seen since I've been licensed.
And, they've stirred up a right good hornet's nest for the lawyers.

We aren't going to know what any of this means until the lawsuits start flying, because the EPA and these trainers sure as hell doesn't have their s**t wired tight on this yet. From the looks of it, the insurance companies don't understand it either, so good luck with the coverage.

I'll wager a guess that by this same time next year, not even 25% of the contractors this applies to will be certified. And most homeowner's won't give a rat's arse either until some lawyer starts running TV commercials and they think there's a buck to be made.

[WarnerConstInc.]

Just curious, what precautions, if any did you take on homes with possible lead paint a year or two ago?

It sure as hell didn't involve miles of plastic, 100's of trash bags, or space suits.

[Blue]

Just curious, what precautions, if any did you take on homes with possible lead paint a year or two ago?

joo talkin to me?

Same as these forum guys are now doing with two exceptions.

1. We didn't have to use the neg air machine.
2. We were required to have our area swabbed by the lab to get paid.

[RCP]

Thanks, Blue, wasn't really directed at anyone, I was just curious as to the awareness level and procedures used before all the RRP.

[JasonW]

I have just finished a 3 day demo for a kitchen. I followed the RRP rules closely, but not exactly.

In the area out of 5 other jobs in progress I was the only one with garbage bags full of debris, using a negative air machine and plastic all over.

Paul,

How did your customers react to this? Did they think it was strange? Did they appreciate the difference?

[nEighter]

well just hearing what is being said (having not been to the class yet) I didn't do the plastic, tyvek suits, did do the mask.. but didn't go crazy like they are saying (from READING) all the steps and precautions..

[Bodger]

Paul,

How did your customers react to this? Did they think it was strange? Did they appreciate the difference?

And the all important question, how much more did they have to pay and how did they feel about it?

I might have something of a different attitude on this if it weren't for the fact that in my state, there is ZERO enforcement of unlicensed hacks who undercut guys like me who go to great lengths to work legally.
It's business as usual for those dudes, if not even better now that licensed guys have to charge more to do the job to government sanctioned standards.

[OGStilts]

joo talkin to me?

Same as these forum guys are now doing with two exceptions.

1. We didn't have to use the neg air machine.
2. We were required to have our area swabbed by the lab to get paid.

You are required to get swabbed afterwards? That must be a state thing.

[Bodger]

well just hearing what is being said (having not been to the class yet) I didn't do the plastic, tyvek suits, did do the mask.. but didn't go crazy like they are saying (from READING) all the steps and precautions..

Okay, so give me $3750 and I won't drop a dime on your a$$. :grin:

[nEighter]

?? cause of no plastic 4 yrs ago?? Eff zyoooouuu!!

EDIT BTW that was on exteriors.. didn't do ANY interiors prior to 78.

[OGStilts]

OK so I didn't say it very tactfully before but I'm just tired of all the bitching and moaning and over reacting to this stupid thing.

First of all, the EPA is not going to magically start showing up at your jobs and looking over your shoulder to make sure you are following everything to the letter of the law. If you are applying 75% of what you learn in the class to your jobs you will be so far ahead of the curve that in the very off chance the EPA does show up they are going to be so happy to see you took the classes, got certified, and applying what you learned that they aren't going to fine you. They may show you where you need to do better but they aren't looking to fine the guys who are making an effort. That may change in a year but for now I think everyone's going to be just fine.

On another note, do you realize how few enforcement agents there are that will be regulating this. If I remember correctly, I was told there are 3 agents covering 5 states here in the midwest. Even if Rory is out there snitching on all the non-compliant jobs, they will never be able to even catch a fraction of the guys.

Secondly, you really need to understand what is going on here before you start telling customers to go out and get there house tested before you will start working on it. It doesn't matter if it tests lead free or not, you still must be certified. That test only tells the tester whether or not that small little sample they took is lead positive. It doesn't tell them whether the area under that sample or around that sample has lead. So there is no testing out of it. All you could do for your customer by recommending to have it tested is cost them thousands upon thousands of dollars in abatement costs or force them to disclose those positive results when they go to sell the house. It's a no win situation for the homeowner. On top of all that, you are still required to be certified if you plan on working on target housing.

I agree completely that this couldn't come at a worse time. That homeowners are going to be furious just like all the rest of this when they fully understand what just happened to them. But bottom line, unless Bodger leads this country in a complete uprising and we over throw the entire government, they aren't going to back out of this. It's a done deal and I'm trying to move on and just get pissed off everytime I have to relive this stupid thing.

[WarnerConstInc.]

If you ask me, it is profiling.

What a horrible stigmata to attach to any house or structure built before 1978.

That is what I have a problem with. I think it will defiantly affect the price and marketability of older houses.

[Blue]

sorry get upset all you want chad but we have two in wichita alone. they were hired in october, each got a company car. their job is cruising and catching.

[nEighter]

I probably jumped the gun by posting this thread, but I have 3 houses that are pre 78 that I am sitting on right now.. just trying to figure out what to do with them or tell them bye bye. I would hate to do that because the people are really cool.. my type of people to work with.

[Eieio]

I ain't scared I spend $37,500 on lunch in DC

[SLS-Construction]

well just hearing what is being said (having not been to the class yet) I didn't do the plastic, tyvek suits, did do the mask.. but didn't go crazy like they are saying (from READING) all the steps and precautions..

To address RCP & your post all in one

Plastic is required now - used painters tarps back then or plywood & rosin paper
HEPA vac required now - shop vac before
Mask - don't have to do one now, nor did I do it back then
Tyvek - same as above
Air Machines - not required then, looking at getting one now due to vents and windows must be closed now
Kept dust down then & now

FYI - Blue did abatement or remediation work for HUD before, to my knowledge no state requires third party testing yet for RRP

[Bodger]

I ain't scared I spend $37,500 on lunch in DC


I can eat that many chicken and waffles too. :grin:

..and if I overthrow the government, you guys all get first dibs on Fort Knox.

[Eieio]

I can eat that many chicken and waffles too. :grin:

..and if I overthrow the government, you guys all get first dibs on Fort Knox.

Its mostly singles for the Lunchtime entertainment :grin:

[OGStilts]

I probably jumped the gun by posting this thread, but I have 3 houses that are pre 78 that I am sitting on right now.. just trying to figure out what to do with them or tell them bye bye. I would hate to do that because the people are really cool.. my type of people to work with.

OK seriously, stop being such a pussy (I admit, I got that line from Rory). Did you send in your $300 for certification yet? If not, do it now. Your signed up for a class first week in May right? From everything we have talked about around here you have a good feel for what needs to be done right? Just follow the rules, if an EPA guy shows up tell him you sent in the money to be certified and you are signed up for the classes but all classes have been full to this point. He will see that you are doing what you are supposed to and give you a warning or make you wrap it up until you complete the class. He's not going to chop your nuts off for classes being so full.

That's what I would do if it were a choice between sitting at home and letting 3 jobs go to the waste side or getting some work done and paying some bills. I'm a gambling man though so you must decide what risk level you are comfortable with.

[Eieio]

I think this OG dude gets it.. It ain't that serious dudes.. Just go to work and move along..

[nEighter]

It is what I had already planned on. Thanks OG.. I am off to get a six pack now. :D

[Bodger]

I think this OG dude gets it.. It ain't that serious dudes.. Just go to work and move along..


That's WTF I've been saying!





:laugh3:

[WarnerConstInc.]

how long is that excuse valid OG?

[Eieio]

how long is that excuse valid OG?

about 60-90 days

[Silvertree]

Paul,

How did your customers react to this? Did they think it was strange? Did they appreciate the difference?

No they didn't think it was strange, she kinda welcomed it. We made no big deal of it.
Negative air made me very comfortable, it took most of the dust right away.

I had to remove gypsum backed plaster and rockwool, metal mesh in the corners. I went through 50 sawzall blades, so I didn't follow the suggest practice of chiseling 90 lineal feet of corner out with a 1" chisel in one hand and a vac in the other:rolleyes3:

[OGStilts]

how long is that excuse valid OG?

I'd say Rory's got it right but I think there is a provision in there that says Warner can do whatever the hell he wants so your good to go! :grin:

[Silvertree]

We were the only company using EPA clean up practices. 5 or 6 other guys in the area are removing siding, windows and one was tearing off for an addition, we were the only ones with plastic, bags, masks ect.

I did not and will not wear the coveralls.
Hat, mask and cloth gloves.

[WarnerConstInc.]

I'd say Rory's got it right but I think there is a provision in there that says Warner can do whatever the hell he wants so your good to go! :grin:

That was a birth right for me, duh.:laugh3:

[Blue]

I have been on a few sites in my day but never one where I did a kitchen while another outfit threw on a room addition.

[Silvertree]

I have been on a few sites in my day but never one where I did a kitchen while another outfit threw on a room addition.

Other sites in the neighborhood Blue, I checked out other job sites while coming and going.

[Bodger]

Here's one of the e-mails I got today from a prominent contractor in San Bernardino. He does mostly new construction, but also room additions and right now his primary focus is on roofing, which he is also licensed for, due to the slowdown.

This is how he responded to my asking what he has done so far about RRP:

Kevin
I don't know yet....We mostly focus on new residential construction. I guess one option would be like asbestos abatement contractors and subcontract the removal by an outside service.

I wouldn't put my name on anything in any contract and have the Home Owner deal directly with the removal process with an outside contractor on that part of the work. Mainly for liability or recourse down the road.

Some things in this business are better off performed by an outside contractor specialized in hazardous removal.

-Ben

[Blue]

Other sites in the neighborhood Blue, I checked out other job sites while coming and going.
Sorry been nipping and comprehension is lax.

[OGStilts]

I wanted to follow up this discussion and my earlier comments with the latest rumor on the street here. Apparently, so far, they have fined 5 contractors in the Chicago area for an average fine of $30,000. It sounds like to me that these guys that got fined did so because they didn't take them seriously and basically told the EPA to F*&% OFF.

It also sounds like the reason it has happened so much around here is because the EPA office for this region is based out of Chicago and the 4 agents they have assigned to the RRP rule are all restricted to Illinois because the other 4 states in this 5 state region have all elected to have their own rules.

I don't have any links or proof to this information, it's all hearsay at this point but my point is that this is real. If you aren't certified yet you better get signed up for some classes and start implementing the practices immediately even if you don't have the training yet. These fines are levied against you personally so don't go thinking you are just going to be able to close up shop or file bankruptcy to get the fines to go away. The EPA will get their money from you.

[Leo G]

I find it unlikely that there have been large fines issued without it being in some news source. I have a guy in Connecticut say the same thing, a $37,000 fine. These things do not go unnoticed for any amount of time. The news would be jumping all over this stuff and so wouldn't the internet.

He also said that they took all of his equipment and trucks on the spot. I call BS. Nowhere in the rule does it state that they can confiscate you possessions on the spot.


I'm skeptical.

[OGStilts]

Do you mean like this?

http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=124349290913038&id=203912433527

McHenry is a Chicago Suburban Area

[Leo G]

Maybe.............

I really wonder why they are fining so high at the beginning. No warnings for an ill posted ruling. I bet it could be reduced through lawsuits.

[WarnerConstInc.]

Nope....FB is the devil.

[OGStilts]

Oh sorry...how about the Tribune. I hate the Tribune but it may be slightly more reliable than than facebook.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2001-10-03/news/0110030345_1_chicago-housing-authority-lead-fined


Whoops nevermind....thats from 2001...different law I guess.

[OGStilts]

I really wonder why they are fining so high at the beginning. No warnings for an ill posted ruling. I bet it could be reduced through lawsuits.

I agree. My only thoughts are that these guys were really being A-holes to the enforcement agents. That or these enforcement agents have Napoleon Complex...imagine that.

[Leo G]

From the tribune paper it sounds like these three companies that were fined were taking care of multiplex housing. So they were technically putting the entire complex community at risk. How working on an apartment would really affect everyone in it seems far fetched.

All I can really think of is the HVAC system. If it is an air system and interconnected I could see it being a complex contamination problem.

And what about the company that got a $40K fine, what happened to $37,500?

[nEighter]

this is all plain stupid. It doesn't make sense to enclose a room when only a freaking window sill is being worked on.. why not seal or cacoon that area off and not contaminate the whole freaking room.

[bconley]

this is all plain stupid. It doesn't make sense to enclose a room when only a freaking window sill is being worked on.. why not seal or cacoon that area off and not contaminate the whole freaking room.
When you take the class, you will learn that you can do exactly that.