Oh No!! I might be a hack

[kornerking]

I have seen the term " HACK" used a lot on this forum and don't know the proper definition.

Can someone please clue me in?



I looked in the dictionary and it did not have my picture.

[Century Man]

Hack Writer. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hack_writer) I would imagine the term used for contractors has a derivitive from the term Hack Writer, a colloquial and usually pejorative term used to refer to a writer who is paid to write low-quality, rushed articles or books.

[asprice84]

I am trying very hard to make the jump from hack of all trades to jack of all trades. :grin:

[Leo G]

There are many ways to define a hack in the contracting business.

Low quality work

Running without insurance and other legal stuff to undercut other legal businesses

Using substandard materials when higher grade was requested.

Running off with the deposit and/or not completing work

Using change orders as a profit making part of your business.



Well buys, chime in. I'm sure there are more than that to define a hack.

[Splinter]

A hack is a NYC cab driver...

The license required is actually called a hack license.

[J F]

There are many ways to define a hack in the contracting business.

Low quality work

Running without insurance and other legal stuff to undercut other legal businesses

Using substandard materials when higher grade was requested.

Running off with the deposit and/or not completing work

Using change orders as a profit making part of your business.



Well buys, chime in. I'm sure there are more than that to define a hack.


Of course they're a profit making part of your business, do you not add any profit to change orders? :mad2:

[Leo G]

Not what I mean.

You bid a job and specifically leave out certain parts only to add them later on in work orders. You do this so you can get in the door with a low price. You undercut everyone else who is bidding the whole job truthfully. You underbid the job without certain parts and then Oh gee, we for got this...do that a few times and you are now the higher price.

Not an honest way to do business.

Change orders do come up. But, there are contractors who leave things out so they can show a low price to the customer and then come in for the kill because it is a needed part of the job.

[OGStilts]

I think a hack is someone from OK that will hang a door for $40

[Leo G]

I smell a story>>>>

[Leo G]

Found it






Tulsa :laugh3:

[kornerking]

Not what I mean.

You bid a job and specifically leave out certain parts only to add them later on in work orders. You do this so you can get in the door with a low price. You undercut everyone else who is bidding the whole job truthfully. You underbid the job without certain parts and then Oh gee, we for got this...do that a few times and you are now the higher price.

Not an honest way to do business.

Change orders do come up. But, there are contractors who leave things out so they can show a low price to the customer and then come in for the kill because it is a needed part of the job.

you musta read my post in marketing.

yes I bid a basic job. if the customer wants more they pay. My motto has always been Quality for quality ... I will beat them on price. Price for price I will beat them on quality.

I was lucky enough to pay off debt and reduce overhead long time ago. Now I don't have to pass costs on to customers that others do. I spent money on equipment to do the job quickly. I learned to give value at a good price.

Still not sure what a hack is, but if I am then being a hack is a good thing.

[OGStilts]

I was lucky enough to pay off debt and reduce overhead long time ago. Now I don't have to pass costs on to customers that others do.

Pete, while I certainly understand what you are saying here, you concern me that you are not paying yourself properly. Congratulations on being able to pay off debt and reduce your overhead but to me that doesn't mean you don't charge for those opportunity costs.

Just because you have your shop paid off doesn't mean you shouldn't consider that value as overhead. If you weren't running your business out of that space couldn't you be renting that space out to someone else and making money on it or couldn't you sell that property and invest that money to produce another income. Those are opportunity costs you should be charging for.

If you are talking about equipment that you paid off, again, at some point you are going to have to replace that equipment aren't you? Shouldn't you be charging your customers for the use of that equipment.

Your ability/discipline to pay off debt early should be a reward to yourself, not your customers.



P.S. I certainly don't think you are a hack. To me a hack is someone who doesn't know what they are doing technically or business wise and they just don't care about their craft or customers enough to do better.

[Leo G]

you musta read my post in marketing.



What makes you think I read your posts? :grin:

[kornerking]

Oh I do pay myself .. Quite well actually. Not having interest to pay, outsourcing (think subbing) when possible gives me a competitive edge. I am able to produce a quality product . I don't overdesign a project just to get more from every job. If the customer wants more when they get comfortable, I will add it in. It might do my ego good to design a "designer kitchen" , but seldom does my pocket book any good.

It is a tough market right now and I will use any advantage I can. As stated in my marketing thread I am doing a more basic kitchen. It still includes standard features such as blum soft close slides, rollouts in all base cabinets, dovetail drawers, veneer core boxes, and yes kornerking in corners. By using this approach I don't have customers haggling over price. If they decide to add upgrades I will gladly put them in, for a price. My business model is not predicated on selling upgrades, rather on keeping plenty of profitable business coming in.

I started this thread to try to find out the definition of hack, as it is used quite liberaly on the forum. I was supposing it had to do with unlicenced co's that underpaid their people and did shoddy work. Interesting to see that it covers shops like mine.

[Leo G]

How do you do your rollouts and what hardware do you use Pete? Do you have rollouts as the bottom shelf (deck) and mid shelf or just on the bottom? What do you use for the rollout itself, a drawer, a simple shelf with a slight edge or something else?

[kornerking]

How do you do your rollouts and what hardware do you use Pete? Do you have rollouts as the bottom shelf (deck) and mid shelf or just on the bottom? What do you use for the rollout itself, a drawer, a simple shelf with a slight edge or something else?

Hardware for rollouts is KV8400 full extension slides--

Rollouts are 3" tall solid maple dovetailed drawer boxes. They are also 2" deep.

All rollouts are adjustable using he Tentex system.

When cabinets have a top drawer 2 rollouts standard, no drawer 3 rollouts.

Leo, Is this what you do standard? What do you use in corner cabinets?

[Leo G]

My standard is no rollouts, I use adjustable shelved. When I get a call for rollouts I use a 9 ply Euro Maple plywood, make a 2 1/2" tall shelf that has a 1" lip around the top. They are usually fixed when I use two of them in lower cabinets. In pantries I made up a system that I usually put 4 rollouts in and they are infinitely adjustable. I use Blum Tandems for the slides.

This is the only shot I have that I can easily access of a couple of rollouts. This was in a kitchen reface to reclaim a blind corner.

http://fototime.com/911E728F3EF5732/orig.jpg

This was the other part of the blind corner system I mad for them

http://fototime.com/7C6C5784D9B8B79/orig.jpg

[Bender]

Still not sure what a hack is, but if I am then being a hack is a good thing.

My advice:
Don't mention this when you're selling;)

[orson]

Are you a hack if you use subcontractors who aren't in compliance with IRS rules on subs?

It is standard practice around here to do the old pay an employee as a sub or to use a sub who you know darn well is employing someone full time as a sub.

It's not something I have done but I know it makes my pricing higher to avoid it.

[framer55]

Are you a hack if you use subcontractors who aren't in compliance with IRS rules on subs?

It is standard practice around here to do the old pay an employee as a sub or to use a sub who you know darn well is employing someone full time as a sub.

It's not something I have done but I know it makes my pricing higher to avoid it.


That is something I hate. To me that is worse than paying someone a few bucks under the table.