Closing the door on vinyl windows

[JasonW]

This seems to be happening more and more in major cities.

PRESERVATION: Closing the door on vinyl windows

By Tim Louis Macaluso on January 12, 2011


It's not unusual in neighborhoods throughout the city to see older wood windows stacked at the curb. Rather than restore the windows, property owners usually replace them, often with vinyl windows. Rochester is now among cities and towns across the country reviewing its ordinance regarding vinyl replacement windows. It's a hot topic among preservationists that is attracting broader public attention.

The city's Preservation Board is considering developing a set of window-related guidelines to its ordinance regarding the approval of certificates of appropriateness. Owners of city-designated landmarks or properties located in a city preservation district are required to obtain a CofA before almost any exterior change is made. There is a $100 application fee for the CofA.

The ordinance would continue to apply only to city-designated landmarks and preservation district properties, but the new guidelines would deter the use of vinyl replacement windows. And board members would offer alternatives to vinyl.

The change would be significant. While it would impact a relatively small and distinct group of properties, Rochester's approach is being closely watched by communities around the state. And the Preservation Board is considering a series of additional guidelines to apply to things such as landscapes.

More (http://www.rochestercitynewspaper.com/news/articles/2011/01/PRESERVATION-Closing-the-door-on-vinyl-windows/)

[framer55]

any vinyl window products are designed to last about 20 years, Howk says, but often begin to deteriorate sooner. And

>>>>>>>>>>>>

Bull

I think wood or vinyl are fine. It is a matter of economics and preservation committees should realize that.

[Eieio]

Maybe they need to do Credit checks before you buy a house in a historical district to make sure you can afford the up keep.

[JasonW]

You've both posted a very common miss-belief that it is more expensive to restore wood windows than it is to replace. Why is that people automatically assume this?

Most older wood windows can be fully restored and have new wood storm sashes installed for about the same price as a good quality replacement. Less mess, less work, and less frustration by the home owner through the process.

Is this an impulse reaction by all remodelers? I can tell you as one that restores windows that your assumption is wrong in most cases. Now, most historic districts are realizing this too and standing there ground. It's a shame that the remodeling industry is so into what ever the manufactures bring and common sense seems to go by unnoticed.

[Eieio]

Jason then I believe that is something they need to make homeowners and contractors aware of..

I think if it was widely known by more that repairing the original windows was equal to or even slightly higher than vinyl replacements I think there would be more homeowner and contractors on board with repairing them.

[afkama]

I don't think there is anything that looks worse on a building than plastic windows.
Maybe plastic siding.

We are not allowed to change the look of the fenestration (or anything else either)

If we replace we are required to replicate the same dimensions and appearance of the original.

Because of this there are a lot of window and door shops in the area that are set up to turn out custom windows, doors and molding at reasonable prices.

We've even had clients and architects spec windows made from mahogany.

With rare exceptions it is cheaper for us to repair than replace.

If we do replace we replace with essentially a replica of the original. The only exception is that the new windows are tip outs.

I haven't seen a double hung system yet that operates better than sash weights and the new weatherstripping technologies allow us to make even repaired windows weather tight.

Vinyl is cheap.

Cheap crap.

They are good at stopping sound though.

[JasonW]

Jason then I believe that is something they need to make homeowners and contractors aware of..

I think if it was widely known by more that repairing the original windows was equal to or even slightly higher than vinyl replacements I think there would be more homeowner and contractors on board with repairing them.

The problem that exists with that is manufacturers have a boatload of cash to flood the market with sale pitches that convince everyone that buying there junk is better than fixing what you have. It's like kicking a guy when hes down, and shooting fish in a barrel, when making comparisons to things that are in need of repair to there bran-new product.

I'd love to see some efficiency testing comparing their new plastic molded window frames to a fully restored window and then a comparison based on current life spans of both. From there you can price it out in your individual situation and see what the best value is.

Trust me, if it was to the advantage of the window replacement manufacturers, they would be boasting about it already. The fact is, it is up to a small group of people like me to try and make some sense about it all and talk people out of wasting there money on replacements, all for the sake of energy efficiency. Let's face it, even if you bought the best full replacement window out there, you still have a 6-R hole in your wall.

Money can be saved by fixing original wood windows and be put to better use in other areas that lose energy like attics, basements, and chimney's.

Hell, if you do it right, it could even help win that next job by saving them cash for the nice things they want instead of convincing them they need to spend all their savings on windows.

[framer55]

Not to disagree too much Jason, but we can get r11 windows now.

[JasonW]

Not to disagree too much Jason, but we can get r11 windows now.

Yes, you are right. there is a fiberglass window that provides an R-11 when it is new. The price tag for this window is huge and it also hasn't been around 100 years like your old drafty window that needs a tune up.

[SLS-Construction]

Not to disagree too much Jason, but we can get r11 windows now.

Framer - I will agree on older windows never meeting the specs of R5+ windows, however for the bulk of the windows sold today, an older one redone properly and utilizing solar screens in summer (where needed) & storms in winter will generally crush them performance wise and cost less than an r5 unit

[framer55]

Guys, here is where I am coming from.

I do like old wood windows. My feelings are that the average person can not afford to redo them. Jason, I have replaced and repaired literally 1000's of windows back in the 80-90's.

The repaired windows are just that, repaired. Most people prefer to have new windows. Maybe it is the mentality OF US CONSTANTLY WANTING NEW. mAYBE IT IS THE PERCEIVED value of new windows.

Jay, you know the market I live in. Most people prefer to have replacements installed as it is less than the cost of repairing.


The market YOU LIVE IN May be able to justify repairing the original, I don't know. I do know it would be hard for me to talk a customer into repairing their windows if they are more expensive, and most of the time that is what I find.

I am not picking on you Jason, in fact I like the business plan you have.