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Eieio
August 27th, 2009, 05:11 PM
Builders of energy-efficient or near-zero-energy homes often aim for R-40 walls. Although a variety of methods have been proposed to meet this goal — for example, SIPs, Larsen truss walls, thick exterior foam sheathing, or the use of I-joists as studs — most builders settle on the most affordable option, which is to use double 2x4 walls with a total wall thickness of 9 to 14 inches. The space between the double walls is usually insulated with cellulose.

The spacing between the double walls depends upon the desired wall R-value. A 5-inch gap between 2x4 walls provides room for 12 inches of cellulose, yielding an R-value of about 40.


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If the walls are being insulated with cellulose, you need to choose between several possible installation methods. Usually the damp-spray method is not used because very thick walls dry slowly.

The cellulose can be blown behind air-permeable netting, or the cellulose can be installed after the drywall is hung. If the latter method is chosen, dry wallers are usually instructed to leave a continuous horizontal 4-inch gap between the lower drywall and the upper drywall so that the gap between the sheets is 4 feet off the subfloor. The gap is used by the cellulose installer and is later patched.

There are two potential disadvantages to using double 2x4-wall construction. The first is that the thick walls can rob a floorplan of interior space. Secondly, building double walls is time-consuming.

Make the foundation wider. If nothing but wall thickness is changed, a smaller interior will be the result. Designers need to keep this in mind and make the foundation larger to compensate.

Add insulation to the outside.
If the size of a home's foundation is fixed, a home with thick foam sheathing will take up less interior space than a home with double 2x4 walls.

If the work schedule is tight, SIP walls go up much faster than double 2x4 walls. But the total cost for SIP walls will be much higher than for double 2x4 walls, even when insulation costs are included in the calculations.

THICK WALL RETROFIT: LARSEN TRUSSES

A double row of 2x4 studs creates an affordable thick wall, but there are other ways to build thick walls. In some cases, especially retrofit situations, it makes sense to consider Larsen trusses.

A Larsen truss is a lightweight vertical truss attached to the exterior of a building's wall framing. Larsen trusses are ladder-like elements built from pairs of vertical 2x2s connected by intermittent gussets made from 3/8-in. plywood. The depth of a Larsen truss is usually 8 to 12 inches. Positioned like auxiliary studs, Larsen trusses have only one purpose: to make a wall thick enough to install additional insulation.

The Larsen truss system was developed in 1981 as a super insulation retrofit technique by a Canadian builder, John Larsen of Edmonton, Alberta.

When installed on an existing house, Larsen trusses can be attached to the existing siding. In new construction, they are usually fastened to the exterior face of the wall sheathing. The bottoms of the trusses are connected with a wide plywood bottom plate that cantilevers from the foundation. Larsen trusses are usually insulated with cellulose, although fiberglass batts can also be used.

Link

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/green-basics/double-stud-walls

naptownCr
August 30th, 2009, 03:03 PM
If you are doing a larsen truss retrofit do you move the windows and doors out or do you do some sort of wide sills and jamb extensions.

fbxpacerdriver
June 8th, 2010, 07:08 PM
From the opening statement:
"Although a variety of methods have been proposed to meet this goal — for example, SIPs, Larsen truss walls, thick exterior foam sheathing, or the use of I-joists as studs..."

Has anyone built wall structures using I-joists (BCIs or similar engineered wood products) on the vertical? Are there specs or calculations showing strength on the vertical?

We came into a truckload of various BCIs and VersaLams, and are considering using the 9+ inch ones for verticals in walls.

SLS-Construction
June 8th, 2010, 08:43 PM
First off FBX - welcome to RC

The manufacturers would have to get you that information, and an engineer would have to work out the specs based on your snow load & the height of the structure.

naptownCr
June 8th, 2010, 08:50 PM
As a revisit to this subject
What about a 2x6 wall 24" OC with 1" foil faced polyisocyanurate on the exterior with let in or metal storm bracing for the corners. Fill the cabity with closed cell or isconene foam to seal and insulate. Cut this flush with studs and install a vapor barrier reflective isulation on the interior. Fir out the walls with another therrmal break at least 3/4" thick and install drywall on the interior. This should get close if not over the R 40 levels without dramatically increasing the wall thickness and for the most part eliminate thermal bridging.

neolitic
June 9th, 2010, 01:26 PM
Anyone know the pay-back time
for any of those options?

naptownCr
June 9th, 2010, 01:27 PM
Anyone know the pay-back time
for any of those options?

long time round eyes

neolitic
June 9th, 2010, 01:30 PM
Well beyond my lifetime Tonto. http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu61/neoliticman/smilie/smiliethumbsup.gif

SLS-Construction
June 9th, 2010, 05:17 PM
There are some that say they can build a paus house (sp?) for the same price as a regular one. I would say you are looking at 10% or more in costs, and the savings recap would equate to whatever you would spend on utilities. You will also save a ton by being able to purchase a smaller HVAC system & it is quite possible you would never need to turn a heater on. Heat is given off by all the electronics & people living in there.

Bender
June 9th, 2010, 07:27 PM
What kind of windows would you need to compliment R-40?

naptownCr
June 22nd, 2010, 04:36 PM
I would say a minimum of triple glazed with a heat mirror or similar radiant barrier. however R40 windows are not in the cards right now unless someone can show me differently.
there was a product from My Hippie years made by Zomeworks called beadwall. This was an insulated glass unit with about a 4" space between the panes in which silverized styrofoam were either vacuumed into or out of depending on the conditions.
I have not heard of this in years although Zomeworks is still in business.

framer55
June 22nd, 2010, 04:44 PM
I believe the highest R-value windows are the following

.http://www.seriouswindows.com/html/fiberglass.html

R11 is what I am seeing.