Forgot to Waterproof?

[Bodger]

http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt10/dingoff/goldberg2.jpg
http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt10/dingoff/goldberg1.jpg

A five year old remodel. Done buy a flipper in Santa Monica. No permit, no inspections, no licensed GC.


There's a second bathroom that hasn't been demolished yet, has almost the same damage. Pitiful.
But mo' money for Mr. Bodger. :grin:

[kornerking]

So..... is that spalted pine?

[Leo G]

Spalted fir

[Blue]

MMMMMMMM, yummy. Get you an old windex bottle and fill it up with bleach and mist all that wood. You'll be good to go. :2thumbsup:

[Greg from K/W]

I can't imagine the stink in that room.

[RCP]

Ewwwww!!!!!!!!!!

[Bodger]

So..... is that spalted pine?

Spalted fir

Spalted wallet.


I can't imagine the stink in that room.

The house was being rented, those tenants cleared out March 1st so the place is empty. As soon as walked in I could smell the nasty rot.

[naptownCr]

Did you have your biohazard suit on? I cannot imagine the toxic mold growing in there. Can I have your tools when you die of mold poisoning?

[Bodger]

Did you have your biohazard suit on? I cannot imagine the toxic mold growing in there. Can I have your tools when you die of mold poisoning?


Oh yeah, I keep all that mold biohazard equipment right next to my my lead paint abatement protective gear. :laugh3::laugh3:

[ChrWright]

I can almost smell it. Nasty.

[Splinter]

Thanks... now Im having flashbacks to when I uncovered this:

[Leo G]

Kinda glad I do shop work.

[Bodger]

The HO hired some dude to come in and do the demolition after it was discovered that some of the tiled wall was punky and soft. Then he realized maybe it was too much for the guy to handle and maybe having one hack follow another wasn't the best way to go. But accepted a proposal from el hacko anyway.

One of the line items in this doofus' estimate was worded:

"For carpentry work, if "licensed constructor" is to be used, add $400."

WTF.

Doofus did allow $950 for hotmopping though. :laugh3:

[Blue]

"For carpentry work, if "licensed constructor" is to be used, add $400."

WTF.



Just the type of guy I send to jail.

[Bodger]

Just the type of guy I send to jail.


I slammed the guy real good with the HO. Told him the proposal itself is illegal if the work exceeds $500 and the dude isn't licensed. Also told him I would have a disclaimer page in my contract that exempts me from liability on all the mold spores that are now swirling around his house from the demolition.
And a mold abatement company has to come in and remove or neutralize what remains before I begin.

Friggin' Julios out here are a menace to society.

Licensed constructor indeed. What the hell is a constructor.

[Blue]

Good job Kevin. That home is going to cause some respiratory probs for HO for years to come if its not abated properly fer sure.

[ParamountPaint]

Mold is the new asbestos. I think it might be going out of style, though. Lead paint will become the new mold.

*That is nasty, BTW

[naptownCr]

no usie bleachie on moldie usie boraxie

[ParamountPaint]

The remediation guys use dry ice blasting on the mold. Also, there is a lot of sanding and sealing of wood. I wonder if a couple coats of shellac based primer might deal with it without sanding? I do know that mold loves oil based products. After the guys do the sanding, I have came in and sprayed sanding sealer on the wood.

I'm not saying to "remediate" that mold in the pics. That's too far gone.

Perhaps, we could have a discussion about mold in general.

[nEighter]

/\ what I do. BIN all the way, after cleaned and surface dry of course.

[Bodger]

Got a quote from P.W. Stephens Environmental for demolition and removal of all molded surfaces.
$4500

[orson]

I use a commercial/institutional product called MoldStat for cleaning up small amounts on framing.

I'm sure the Borax works too, that stuff kills anything!

[ParamountPaint]

Got a quote from P.W. Stephens Environmental for demolition and removal of all molded surfaces.
$4500

Man, them mold guys get the loot! I would assume their insurance is pricey, though, as they take on a lot of liability.

They also use some pricey equipment, what with all the HEPA stuff and negative air pressure.

[ApgarConstruction]

what did they tile over? drywall? 5 years. that is nasty. i have ripped out 20 year old tub surrounds over cement board with no water proofing and don't see that damage.
i've love to know what caused that much damage so soon?

[Bodger]

what did they tile over? drywall? 5 years. that is nasty. i have ripped out 20 year old tub surrounds over cement board with no water proofing and don't see that damage.
i've love to know what caused that much damage so soon?

It's hard to say exactly, I couldn't tell from the debris that's on site and I wasn't going to go poking through it. I did not, however, see any evidence of hotmopping at all.

I think they just covered up the walls and floor of the tub with cementious board, did some edge caulking and then tile with Thinset.

The homeowner is balking at the price. He bought this house from a flipper who did FSBO. Now he has no idea where the previous owner is or who did the work, but it sure as hell wasn't a licensed contractor (I hope).

From the way this homeowner is talking, he's going to call that hack handyman back, tell him to be careful about the mold, and get the whole thing demolished and re-tiled for $15K, and that's both bathrooms.

Back to back hacks.

[ApgarConstruction]

that sounds like a lot more issues than just tile over cement backer. that is a major flaw in the workmanship. i've seen less rot/mold with a tile over drywall tub surround.

[Bodger]

that sounds like a lot more issues than just tile over cement backer. that is a major flaw in the workmanship. i've seen less rot/mold with a tile over drywall tub surround.


Maybe there was already some mold present? If not water damage that fostered the mold and rot, what else could it be?

HO is hoping for some insurance money, anyone know if that's likely with this kind of damage due to negligence?

[ApgarConstruction]

I've never seen HO ins. pay for something that was neglect or a mistake in craftsmanship.

if it's weather related, etc they pay but this is all pointed towards the job being done poorly.

[Bodger]

I've never seen HO ins. pay for something that was neglect or a mistake in craftsmanship.

if it's weather related, etc they pay but this is all pointed towards the job being done poorly.

That's what I told this owner when he asked me about ins. coverage. I told him his best bet was to track down the seller and see if there was a contractor involved in the remodel work. Which I doubt there was. This is a typical scenario from the boom days. But a ramshackle house five blocks from the beach, do a fast cosmetic remodel, and flip it for a $150K profit in a couple of months. I think this master bath was an illegal addition too, so who knows what will happen when a permit gets pulled for the repairs.

The owner was driving by and saw the FSBO sign and bought it on impulse a few years ago. Paid close to a mil for a 1000 sq. foot house.

Now this guy is bugging me for an estimate on the repairs. I told him I can't give him an accurate estimate until all the rotted crap is out of the way and I know the extent of the damage to the sub-floor, and how far the rot goes.

I told him the framing and sheathing is shot, so I'll have to demo the stucco and do it new to get that locked back up correctly. His response: "I don't think you need to do that if the stucco isn't damaged."

Here we go. NOW he's price conscious.

[ParamountPaint]

I've never seen HO ins. pay for something that was neglect or a mistake in craftsmanship.

if it's weather related, etc they pay but this is all pointed towards the job being done poorly.

I'm constantly surprised at what insurance will pay for. I see a lot of repairs they cover that are caused by roof leaks from a reasonably new roof. Also, hacked ice maker lines, which may be about the number 2 insurance event that gets me work. Number 1 is also in the hack plumbing category (WC supply lines).

[Eieio]

I've never seen HO ins. pay for something that was neglect or a mistake in craftsmanship.

if it's weather related, etc they pay but this is all pointed towards the job being done poorly.

They do in my area routinely.. I am shocked at what the will cover sometimes

[Bodger]

Insurance companies sometimes do the math on a thousand claims like this and find out it's cheaper to pay something out than to fight them.

Three words insurance companies don't like are "bad faith" and "jury".

[Bodger]

So I don't hear back from this guy until today. He called and left a message that he went ahead and had "JUAN" (no joke, that's the name) do the demolition, he didn't want to spend $4,500 on demolition by the certified licensed mold abatement firm I referred him to.

NOW he wants me to come in and give him an estimate on the repairs. I really want to tell this guy to go eff himself, and I think I will.

Wanna bet who gets the renovation job once he sees my estimate?

I can't stand people like this, they are why licensed guys can't compete and lose work. I could probably make $4 to 5K on this job, it's a few days of framing and then tile work which I would sub out and mark up. He'll see my price and give it to Juan sure as hell.

[Leo G]

Give him a lowball price that would make Jaun say WTF and then tell him you are busy until 2013

[Bodger]

Give him a lowball price that would make Jaun say WTF and then tell him you are busy until 2013



:laugh3::laugh3::laugh3:
That's perfect, maybe I will.

[angus242]

http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/threadjacked.gif

Less than 10 year old home. I see this stuff 100% of the time.

Oh, and the HO and Juan can both go eff their cheap-ass selves :mad:

[Bodger]

http://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/threadjacked.gif

Less than 10 year old home. I see this stuff 100% of the time.

Oh, and the HO and Juan can both go eff their cheap-ass selves :mad:


I e-mailed the HO this morning and told him that I could not get involved in a project where so much illegal activity had taken place, and that my proposal for the remaining renovations would no doubt be at least 40% higher than "Juan" and would probably mean Juan would get the work anyway.

I explained to this dolt that Juan violated numerous state and federal laws, including environmental and licensing requirements, probably didn't properly support the remaining structure after demolishing out the rotten structural members, and I wasn't interested in coming in behind a jackleg and assuming liability for possible structural damage, lead paint disturbacne and improper mold remediation and removal. Especially in a municipality like Santa Monica, known for its strict and unforgiving building department.

I also opined that the original work was no doubt done without a permit or inspections, and that's what led to the trouble he's having now.
Cheap is expensive.

My phone has been ringing like a fire alarm for the past hour. This guy is freaking out, leaving messages that he's VERY concerned about his house now and needs my help and blah, blah, blah.

Yeah, right, call Juan azzhole.

[Greg from K/W]

Some people have all the nerve huh? Funny how they are only worried about price but when it comes to doing it right and making sure its a ok that goes right out the window. Tell him you can do it for $495 tile and all lol watch him squirm. Don't ya wish you had a micro cam on the wall when you can mess with someone like this?

[Bodger]

Some people have all the nerve huh? Funny how they are only worried about price but when it comes to doing it right and making sure its a ok that goes right out the window. Tell him you can do it for $495 tile and all lol watch him squirm. Don't ya wish you had a micro cam on the wall when you can mess with someone like this?



Yeah, and these people are all about saving money until something goes wrong, then it's all about trying to get the licensed GC to take the liability.

I had a job a few years back where the HO decided she didn't like my hardwood flooring contractor's price, so she hired her own guy. The remodel was nearly done, so I had her sign a document stating that the hardwood flooring guy was her responsibility, not mine.
Again, I kid you not, the guy's name was Juan. He bid the job for $3K less than my licensed guy, then shows up the day of the install and tells the HO the original quote was l only for labor, and the materials would be $3K.

He took the select oak flooring right off his truck and started laying it, no acclimation, nothing. It cupped within two months something awful, and of course, this idiot woman's father called me and threatened to sue ME over the botched flooring. I faxed him the signed disclaimer and release of liability form along with my lawyer's number.
Nice try.

[Bodger]

The plot thickens. The HO called me asking for help finding out if the original remodel work was permitted. I researched it online. There are FOUR expired permits still open on the property and with balances due.

No history of rough inspections or clearance to cover walls. The flipper pulled permits to cover his arse whilst doing the work, but never called for inspections.
Buttoned up, sold it, and adios muchachos.

[Blue]

I have been talking to my Broker about your job Bodger. This HO needs to contact his realtor/broker right away. I won't say much more than that right now you can email me if you like.

[Bodger]

I have been talking to my Broker about your job Bodger. This HO needs to contact his realtor/broker right away. I won't say much more than that right now you can email me if you like.


I'll e-mail you. No broker or realtor involved though, it was a FSBO. I referred the HO to an R.E. attorney I know.

[Blue]

OK I gotcha now. We kept missing each other.


On a side note we say this every week. "You can't afford not to use a Realtor."